Considering using tubing - question about cleaning

[berkshires]

I've been sugaring for five years now. So far all on buckets. Considering maybe adding a tubing run next season, but I'm not sure if it's worth it. Here are the considerations:

- I have no electricity whatsoever at my sugaring location
- I'd likely do a single run on 3/16 tubing of 10-20 trees
- I have a very steep (perhaps 20 degree) slope I would be running, so gravity tubing is a no-brainer
- Might be as much as 200 feet of tubing

So here's my question: How the heck would I clean lines between seasons? Put the whole mess in a bag and bring it home to attach to my hose and try to run water through the line and all the drops? Don't clean it, just let it drain and then dump the first run of the next season? Something else? I don't want to deal with pumps and stuff, and have no way to power them.

Is this just not viable, or what?

Thanks,

Gabe O

[Cjadamec]

The tubing can be cleaned by siphoning a cleaning solution through the tubing from the top of the hill to the bottom. You can then rinse the tubing with the same method. My 3 runs are around 1000ft of tubing each run and a single 5 gallon bucket of cleaner is more than enough to clean each run.

With so few taps on the line I would replace the tap, drop and tee fittings yearly. I replace all 70 of my drops including the tees each year to help keep the tap holes clean as long as possible.

The only pump you might need is if the tubing collects in a tank other than you main storage tank. I use a 12v submersible pump that I can power with a cordless tool battery if I need to. That's how I get the sap out of the collection barrel and over to the evaporator.

With that much slope you should see really good production from the 3/16 tubing. It should be a lot more than you are getting on buckets.

[iby]

you can buy wash bottles and the end will fit right in the spout... start at the top of the hill and work down..
here's what I used last season..

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZN2OQZ/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[berkshires]

The tubing can be cleaned by siphoning a cleaning solution through the tubing from the top of the hill to the bottom. You can then rinse the tubing with the same method. My 3 runs are around 1000ft of tubing each run and a single 5 gallon bucket of cleaner is more than enough to clean each run.

With so few taps on the line I would replace the tap, drop and tee fittings yearly. I replace all 70 of my drops including the tees each year to help keep the tap holes clean as long as possible.

The only pump you might need is if the tubing collects in a tank other than you main storage tank. I use a 12v submersible pump that I can power with a cordless tool battery if I need to. That's how I get the sap out of the collection barrel and over to the evaporator.

This would be a hill directly above the sugar shack, so I'd just end the tubing in a food-grade barrel of some kind propped up on cinderblocks behind the shack, with a spigot in the bottom of it. I'd then draw that into a bucket to feed the preheater as needed. Should work pretty well for now.


With that much slope you should see really good production from the 3/16 tubing. It should be a lot more than you are getting on buckets.

Hope so!

So let me see if I understand what you're suggesting. At the end of the season I:
1 - pull taps, cut the spile off the drop and add some kind of 5/16 end-of-line cap on each drop
2 - With the line still in place on the hill, siphon first cleaning solution, then water, through the line.
3 - Break down the line.

Then the next season, reinstall with new Tees, drops, and spiles?

I can see how I'd need to replace the drops every year with this method, since I wouldn't be getting any cleaning solution into them. But breaking the line apart and replacing all the Tees and then putting them all back in every year seems like a lot of work.

GO

[Biz]

Here is what I have done for cleaning gravity tubing lines. I seem to do something different every year while learning what works and what doesn't, but I think this worked well. It was certainly better than not cleaning at all, which is bad - lots of mold in lines.

First, there should be water or sap in the lines so you can get gravity flow. Take a pail with mixture of your cleaning solution of choice. I have used a weak bleach solution before but I had an issue with insufficient rinsing affecting syrup taste, so last spring I tried One Step sanitizer used for the homebrew industry. It does not require rinsing although I did anyways. So, take the bucket of whatever, pinch line, pop the tap off the tree, dip it in the solution, release pinch until you see the solution drawn through the drop and past the tee by the gravity vacuum. Then pinch line again while you insert tap or line into the pin or cup of tee. The line should seal and drop should stay filled. Repeat for each tap. For setups with no elevation drop, connect a diaphragm pump at collection tank end of the line to create vacuum. I went around and rinsed after that but don't think I needed to. It can be a bit time consuming, but if you change drops you can skip this step.

Dave

[buckeye gold]

Berkshire, I use a pump up garden sprayer (new of course, no chemical use) and mix a 200ppm calcium Hypochloride solution in it. You can take the end off and adapt it to fit in a spile or tubing end. You can buy 1 lb packs at a pool supply for like 3-5 dollars and it will mix a lot of solution. I even disinfect my tanks with it. At the end of the season cap the open end of your line at the tank, go to the first spile pull it and hook it on the sprayer and fill the drop and line below. When it is full go to the next one and repeat. The tees have a stud on them to plug the spile or line onto that will seal it from leaking. After you've filled your line to the top end leave it set for at least a couple hours. I leave my at least four hours. Then uncap the drain end and start pulling your piles off the studs and letting drain from the top of your run. Have your sprayer full of clean water and flush each one as you go. After you've flushed plug them back onto the tee stud and leave them until winter prior to your next season and go cut out old tees or drops and install new. If just replacing spiles (ok first year ) then cut off the old spiles and install new and plug onto tee. It's really not to hard. Just don't short the soak time.

[Cjadamec]

The CDL 3/16 tees have a cup built into them that is sized to fit the taps. When you pull the tap you can insert it into the cup and it seals up the drop. It seals well enough in fact that I've used the cups to hold vacuum on a running 3/16 line.

You don't need to replace tees or drops every year, that just what I do. It doesn't take me much time at all to replace the whole drop while I'm out in the woods tapping at the beginning of the season and it saves the time of having to clean them at the end of the season.

At the very least you should replace the tap which you can snip off the end of the drop line and pop a new one in.


There is a fair amount of maintenance and effort to install tubing, but the pay off in extra sap, and not having to haul buckets is generally well worth the effort. Doubly true if your trees are on a steep slope. If it wasn't for the tubing I probably would have given up on making syrup after the first or second year.

[to100]

Thanks for this post, I have been wanting to do it .

I takedown 3 lines and wondered how to use sodium hypochlorite, I have a pump sprayer that I just rinse with warm house water. Thanks

Could I do a flush and rinse this spring before tapping? How long before I could tap and do a sap flush first?
I have an air compressor that I blow out the lines in the spring before taking them down?
How much do you put into a 5 gallon bucket for mix?

Thanks

[bill m]

Berkshires, If you would like to take a ride up to my sugar house in Lenox I can show you how to set up your tubing and give suggestions for cleaning.

[buckeye gold]

How much do you put into a 5 gallon bucket for mix?

depends on the amount of active ingredient. A tablespoon would be more than enough of most you buy.

[berkshires]

Thanks everyone for the excellent advice! I think I get the picture. So here's what I'm thinking, correct me for anything that sounds too out of whack:

1 - While there's still sap in the line, walk the line from bottom to top with a bucket of hypochlorite. At each tap, pull the tap and put it in the bucket of sanitizer. Once it draws enough to fill the drop and go a little into the 3/16 line, pinch the drop and put the tap into the cap on the tee.
2 - When I get to the highest tap, let it draw all the remaining sanitizer to fill the whole run of 3/16 line.
3 - Let it sit for a couple of hours. At this point all the drops and the whole line of 3/16 should be clean and full of sanitizer.
4 - Get a couple buckets of water (I figure you probably need more water to flush). Starting at the highest tap, pull the tap off the tee and put it in the bucket of water. Once the water column has rinsed all the way down to the next tree, plug the tap back into the tee, and go down to that next tree.
5 - Repeat step 4 until I get to the lowest tree in the line. On this one, let it draw all the remaining water through the line to rinse the 3/16. At this point, the whole line should be clean and rinsed.
6 - Un-cap all the taps. Does the order matter? Anyway, at this point, I think I now have a clean and dry(ish) line and drops.
7 - Plug the taps back into the tees until the start of the next season.

Yikes, if I've counted right, that means walking the line either three or four times (depending on the direction of step 6). Some of which is with heavy buckets. Did I mention the 20 degree slope? I'm going to earn a few beers that day!

Then on year 2:
- Before the start of the season, I walk the line, deal with any issues with tubing, replace all the taps.
- After the season, I do the same as season 1.

On year 3: instead of all of that cleaning, I just siphon sanitizer from the top tap all the way through the 3/16, and then repeat with water to flush it. And I need to cut out and replace all the drops and tees.

On year 5 I start from scratch, replacing everything.

And I thought cleaning a dozen buckets every year was a chore! You guys work hard for your hobby! LOL.

GO

[berkshires]

Berkshires, If you would like to take a ride up to my sugar house in Lenox I can show you how to set up your tubing and give suggestions for cleaning.

That's very generous of you! Are your lines up year-round? My aunt spends a lot of time in Stockbridge in the summer, and I know she'd enjoy a visit, so I could come visit her and also learn how to set up my lines.

GO

[Cjadamec]

Tubing is still work for sure. But think of how many times you walk that hill during the season to collect those buckets.

The upside to the tubing is that the sap comes to you, there is significantly more sap collected, and with proper sanitation and line maintenance your tap holes will stay open and produce sap for 2 months or longer.

[buckeye gold]

Also your tubing will run sap when buckets won't. Example, I have 4 buckets on trees around the house and everything else is on 3/16 th. This morning the buckets were dry, zero sap, I went to my tubing collection tank and it had 40 gallons.

Your scenario with siphoning out of a bucket requires diligence to not lose your siphon, miss cap a spile and your done. I can do a hole line 300-500+ feet long with my little 1 gallon sprayer and a milk jug of solution in case I need to refill. Both ways work, but I like working less to do the same job.

[hansel]

I was thinking of running 3/16 in my yard on 20 taps too and was wondering about cleaning. I was thinking it might be easier just to roll it all up after the season and submerge it in a container with cleaner, rinse it and seal it. That work too?

[bill m]

Yes, my lines are up year round. There a few that cross woods roads that I have to disconnect and roll up.

[Michael Greer]

You'll end up like all the others, pretending to clean the tubing for four or five years and then throw it all away and start over. It's all ultimately plastic waste, and most of it gets thrown out back and never gets dealt with properly. You could save a lot of headaches by just buying it and throwing it in the river. Yes, buckets are more work, but they can be cleaned. If you don't want to do the work, just stay home and read a book.

[buckeye gold]

All I will say is give it a try and decide for yourself. When your done with it take it to be recycled, my recycling center takes all mine, it's that simple.

[mol1jb]

I have lots of 3/16 so carrying a bucket is out of the question of me. I do like to use a 5 gallon back pack sprayer and hike all my lines, shooting in cleaner to each drop. The sprayer has enough pressure to push the cleaner and if your tubing is dry, it can create flow if enough is put into the lines.

[bmbmkr]

When you take it down to clear your road crossing at the end of the season, roll it up like you said and make sure it stays up off the ground. The critters will have a HAYDAY with it on the ground.

Also, like others said, tubing will run after the buckets stop. I have 3 3/16 lines that are 1600' long, one has 48 taps on it one 44 and one 36. Yesterday the 44 and 36 were running strong, our last freeze was 3 nights ago mind you. I was up there the evening before last and the 48 line was dry-I made it halfway up the hill before dark and rain sent me home- If I'd had my head lamp I'd a kept going, but only had my cell phone light and with the rain and my glasses couldn't see how much battery I had left. Anyways, I went back yesterday morning, and all 10 of the other 3/16 lines except the one with 48 were pouring into the mainline at the bottom. ( I have 5 5/16 lines that are at the bottom of the hill and below the last taps on the 3/16 lines. 5-7 trees on each of them and 3' of drop after the last tap)

So I went up the line looking for and finding and fixing a few squirrel chews. It's a lot easier to find leaks when the sap is running and you can see the bubbles. My point is, one leak can ruin the run on all the trees above it! You'll still get sap, but not nearly as much. When I got to the top of the 44 tap ine, I cut it and put a gauge in. In the minute it took me to splice in the tee for the gauge, the sap ran down the hill pretty quick and the tap stopped running. Once I got the tee in, the gauge immediately jumped to 10 in/hg, then crept up to 15in/hg. It took about 3 min to get to 15, but that's when the tap started dripping again. I stayed til it got to 17, and went down the line and all the other taps had started producing sap again. The tree where the 48 tap line starts was 75' away, and no sap was running out of any of those trees.

If you have 20' t 30' of drop after your last tap, you will really be amazed at how the 3/16 will pull, even 40 hours after the last freeze. By the way, 30-35 taps is the most recommended on a 3/16 line.

Ben

[berkshires]

All I will say is give it a try and decide for yourself. When your done with it take it to be recycled, my recycling center takes all mine, it's that simple.

All of that plastic waste is definitely a big concern for me. If I knew I could recycle the tubing - that would be a clincher for giving it a try. I've looked around but haven't had any luck finding someone who'll take it in Connecticut (where I live). Am I not looking hard enough, or is it not really "that simple"?

Gabe