making my own pan

[ontario guy]

hi,

I am going to build a new pan for next year. I currently have a homemade version of the classic evaporator on this link.
http://www.atkinsonmaple.com/evaporators.html

I get anywhere from 8 to 10 gal per hour. I have 63 taps (i could tap nearly 110) and it takes everything ive got to keep up... well i don't. Last thursday i got home from work and everything was overflowing. I had over 100 gallons of sap. It took me till 11 pm till i was able to get all my sap in the shack. I only have room to store 70 gallons.

I need to at least get 20 to 25 gallons per hour.
Can i do this with a flat pan?
Is it worth putting partitions into a flat sap pan?
How big and at what height are the holes in the partitions?

I was thinking 20 by 24 syrup pan with 24 by 40 to 50inch sap pan. There is a local welding shop who will do the flat pan at a good price. The raised flue pan almost triples the price.

I need to save time now that we have 1 year old twins... no time to stay up till 1 am every night boiling..

Thanks

Mark

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have used flat pans for years and it would take about a 3x7 or 3x8 flat pan to get 20 to 25 gallons per hour. I have a 3x7 that I used last year and I could get 20 if I fired it good and preheated the sap.

A flue pan setup is the best way to go. You get what you pay for kinda syndrome.

[ontario guy]

i kind of figured that would be the general concensus. That kind of money is hard to come by these days... I guess coffee to keep those eyes open is going to be the way to go for a while 8O 8O

We had a +5 C day today and it was -5C last night so i should have another 100 gallons tonight and the weather is supposed to be the same tomorrow.... sometimes this maple syrup thing seems like work...

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have a nice 3x7 stainless flat pan that is only one year old and looks like new with a 3/4" valve on it that I would sell for $ 200.00 US currency if you are interested. Don't know how much the shipping would be though if you want to check.

[Jerome]

Where Abouts are you in Ontario? I am in Elmvale and have modified the same kind of design and was getting close to 15+ on a test run. I will be boiling tomorow if you want to drop by and I can show you my set up.

[Slatebelt*Pa*Tapper]

Brandon, let me know if that fella dont take that big pan (3x7), I may be intrested in it?? That would probly work great on my homemade evaporator./ I have to add another length of brick to it though. Id drive down there mabe to get it. Let me know anyway ??


****************

Chuck

[WF MASON]

If you do have a pan made remember , thinner is better, I've seen some stainless pans made out of 1/8'' plate and you need f-16 afterburner to get heat enough through it to make a boil.

[Fred Henderson]

1/8" plate? Easy to weld but that is all. 20 or 22 gage should be the max.

[Jerome]

Ontario Guy I boiled 120 Gallons yesterday in 8 hours
':lol:'My wife could not figure why I was laughing all day':lol:'
I had a roilng boil all day. If you would like send me your email and I can send you a drwaing of how I modified my oil tank boiler. I was at atkinsons and looked at thiers and would suggest that you raise the floor and build a wall about 1/2 way back to cut down on the space being heated.
jerome@homeplaceinspections.ca

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Sounds like a tremendous idea because the wall half way back forces the heat up into the pans, and thus the rolling boil all day! :D

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jeremy,

Sounds like it if you are getting 45 to 50 gallons an hour. I have a 2x8 and I can't get that good of rate as it is.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Chuck,

I may be going to Salisbury, Pa in 2 or 3 months and I could meet you there with the pan if you are interested. I will be glad to email you up some pics. If you get it set up right, you may be able to boil off up to 25 gph.

[Jerome]

wvmapler
If you mean me I was getting 15 gals / hr. I wish I could get 45
Jerome

[Slatebelt*Pa*Tapper]

Brandon,
send me some pics when you get a chance Hinkcj@intergate.com. My wife and I talked about it. She may want to just get a used evaporator this comeing year or next. So Im not sure at this point. But email me some and We'll go from there.

I'm kinda afraid if I use a large straight pan like that, I wont be able to get it down enough to finish it inside in a short time.
I kinda wonder if you could have partions welded inside of a pan that size to some how stop fresh syrup from mixeing with almost finished syrup??
With the two pans I use now.
I can almost get it right down to the money if Im carefule and Just take it inside and finish it within a few minutes.

Like if Id use a large pan like that I may have to finish it for an hour or so inside?? Do you know what I mean??

How the sap flown down there today??

**********************

Chuck.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Chuck,

You could get sections put into it easily if you want, but whatever you think. If you are going to 100 + taps next year, then you will have a lot more sap to cook. Last year I cooked in it 6 times without taking out any syrup and when I drained it, I finished off over 13 gallons of syrup which was about an inch of liquid in the pan.

Some of the sap in it was cooked six times, but I still ended up with excellent flavored and Grade A medium Amber. I have done this for years in the past and never made darker than Medium Amber syrup and it has worked good for me. I think it is a lot of hogwash about mixing syrup and sap and it has become more of a selling point than anything else. Jim(mapleman) was down here this past summer and he can atest to the fact that my syrup was very good.

[Slatebelt*Pa*Tapper]

Brandon,
sounds intresting. Send me the picks. Im not worried about the color to much.
I just dont want to finish inside a whole bunch at one time. Ive never finish my syrup outside yet.
Im affraid I wont be able to control the heat on that evaporator :cry: ..
Im hopeing to build a sugar shack this summer and get the evaporator inside. :idea:
That way if I WOULD GO WITH A BIG PAN. It wouldnt be sitting out in the open with almost finished syrup in it. Waitng for the next boil. If I wouldnt build the shack this year than it would sit out side coverd up till it would get finished. I would still like to see a pic or two of it.

********************

Chuck

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Chuck,

I will try to send you some pics in a day or two! :D

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jerome,

I was referring to Jeremy(lobstafari) getting an amazing rate of 45 to 50 gph on his 2x6. :D

I am still extremely impressed with what you are doing on you operation. Sounds like to me you really know what you are doing. :D :D

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jeremy,

Same here and I know the feeling. It is easy to get caught up in the rush of new and bigger. I am hoping to build a really good preheater and get a good blower and airtight front and really have a nicer setup for next year. I was happy with this year, but I can't wait to make modifications for next year.

You know how it goes, we are never content with anything and always looking to make things better, but that is what makes us better sugarers.

[mapleman3]

My thoughts exactly, I am definately doing a hood and preheater, and switching to oil for sure, for me it would be a huge advantage to be able to just turn it on after work for 3-4 hrs if I want and not drag it out for 5hrs with warm up and shut down. also the idea of a constant steady fire temp is very inviting!! imagine not lowering the temp from opening and closing the doors or the wood not hit one side of the pan or the other!!! I'm sold for sure

[michaelh05478]

Ah Jim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ya got the oil bug!!!!!!! :lol:.....If you decide to buy a oil rig all set up let me know...Ill keep my eyes open.....What size wiuld you be looking for??? 2x6...3x8!!!! HELL........go 3x10 and get it over!!!! I love my 3x10....like you say starts to boil in munutes and shuts down as quick!!! The preheater hood is also a must!!!!!!!!!! Do you think youll make it up here this year??

Oil is the way to go! But you might want to think about putting in a woodstove for heat. It can get kinda cold.
John

[mapleman3]

Hmm John, Thats one part of it I hadn't thought of... still get heat off the pans I'm sure.. but not off the arch like we do now...

Mike I'm just converting mine, I'll keep all the parts so If I sell it in the future it can be wood or oil. nice thought going to a 3x10 but I am thinking of staying 2x6, most of the boiling I have been doing has been on appx 225 taps, the other bush never really ran good, untill this week, it's in a cold section and will put vac on it next year possibly, so if all 320 ish taps run, that will be more than I can handle. I don' tthink I will add more for a good long time. it's a lot of work for 1 guy...

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

How much does it cost to convert a small wood fired evaporator like mine to oil and what does it entail??? I have been enertaining the thoughts over the past month versus forced air and an airtight front??

[mapleman3]

:lol: :lol: hehe.. anotherone bit by the oil bug... it sure makes sense huh brandon, when your 1 person doing all the work, oil seems like the way to go.

[ontario guy]

I have just bought 60 fire bricks... how far from the pan do you put them?
4 inches at the firebox end to 2 inches at the chimney end?

Mark

[mapleman3]

you want more than 4" for wood, need to have the firebox big enough to put a good amount of wood in. also if you don't have an ash grate below your ashes and coals will build up and lessen the amount of wood you can fit as your boiling.

[ontario guy]

oops i should have clarified that . My firebox is 24 inches and then i have a wall and sand right now about 2 inches below my pans for the remaining 4 feet.

I have recently puchases 60 firebrick ($.50 each) and am going to change the sand for firebrick and was wondering how far from the pans to put it.

I am not sure if i am getting enought draft with the 2 inch space (it may be a little less that 2 inches.

I don't have a grate either.

Mark

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

What is the size of you stove pipe coming out the back??

What you can do is sorta make the firebrick into a valley shaped design so you are not blocking of any of the front of the stove pipe.

Make sense??

[ontario guy]

i have about 4 inches clearence at the back for the stove pipe. I will try the valley thing.

I had a couple more ideas and wanted to see what you guys thought of it.

How about heating the air that feeds the fire? That is what they do on the new high efficiency stoves. Has anyone tried this? I don't know if we would generate enough heat for secondary combustion like the new EPA wood stoves.

Also, has anyone ever tried putting tubing under a flat pan to simulate flues? (piece of stailess pipe bent to 90 degrees at both ends then welded or soldered to holes made inthe bottom of a flat pan) this would give allot of surface area since the flames would go all around the entire pipe. Would sap boiling in the pipe work? would there be too many bubbles coming out of the tube that it would splash all over the place when it comes out into the pan?

How long should the tubes be? i would imagine no longer than two feet.

any ideas...

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I think the idea of stainless pipe designed like a flue would work great. I hope you do try it and I will be anxious to see the results.

You may be on to something good! :D