manifold build for "shurflo" set-up ?

[Chickenman]

I want/need to build a manifold for my set up and got to thinking, would it be better to use 1/2 inch PVC with tee's and elbows to accept the NPT/barb fittings, that would take up a lot of room inside my cooler or would it be better to use schedule 80 PVC and drill and tap the pipe for the NPT/barb fittings. With the first set-up I could add valves to isolate individual lines and add lines at a future date easily. With the sch. 80 set up, I could drill and tap additional ports as space allowed if I needed additional lines. I currently only have 1 line going to the pump here at the house as a test of the pump and tubing. ( Have to say, I'm impressed with 1.25 gallons of sap per tap per day and drawing 22 to 26 inches vacuum.) I will be building another for next season for a different property that will be a take down system with 3 to 7 lines depending on how the woods map out.

[craigwade2005]

Not sure if it would work for your application, but I just used a star fitting from CDL. The ports I didn't use I just plugged with a short section of line and an end line plug. Saved lots of room in the box for me. 21820

[VTnewguy]

I just used a piece of 3/4" mainline and some dsd saddles for a manifold. No valves but it worked well. Be sure to have a recirc line just before the pump.

[Biz]

I use the star fitting also. You can get 3-way up to 6-way star fittings. Use an elbow and make sure the fittings side is pointed up so all the lines see equal vacuum. If using 3/16 lines you need to use 3/16 to 5/16 adaptors to the star.

Dave

[bryankloos]

I used 1/2" schedule 80 pvc with Tee's and 5/16 nipples. It does take up some space but assures equal vac in each line and doesnt have the restrictions of the star dumping through one central hole.

[tombaisley]

How much vacuum are you seeing with all the ports on the manifold plugged? I have a mod#4008 and I am seeing 20"

[SmellsLikeSyrupNH]

Why not take a piece of 5/16 tubing create a loop with it, put as many T's in it as you have for lines, connect all your incoming lines to that. Quick and easy manifold that will be as airtight as your lines that are feeding it.

[Biz]

Why not take a piece of 5/16 tubing create a loop with it, put as many T's in it as you have for lines, connect all your incoming lines to that. Quick and easy manifold that will be as airtight as your lines that are feeding it.

I don't think there will be equal vacuum on the lines with that setup. One line could hog most of the flow or block other lines from seeing max vacuum.

Dave

[asknupp]

This year I put together a manifold with 6" schedule 80 pvc. Drilled and tapped. Used copper so that I could angle the way I needed to for the 5 3/4" mainlines coming to the manifold. Pvc valves on each main as well.

[DRoseum]

Used push to connect fittings to build a manifold. Tees are 3/8" x 1/4" and then there is a 1/4" ball valve for each line with a 1/4" x 3/16" barb fitting for each line. This allows easy disassembly for cleaning and ability to isolate individual lines for maintenance etc. Also doesn't take up much space at all.
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Note - i am using an aquatec 8852 that came from my original RO set up and it has quick connect ports. But for shurflo threaded fittings you can easily buy threaded push fit connectors

[littleTapper]

I had a spider-web 1/2 PVC manifold in a plastic tote for a few years and the recirculation line also ran into it. Built a new manifold for this season with some clear 1.25" PVC and drilled/tapped it for 1/4 valves. Manifold is sloped to the pump and recirc line now goes into the pump before the sap from the lines; hoping it results in keeping everything cooler (and I have both a light bulb for heat and cooling fans on a controller to regulate the temp inside the tote).

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[Dadz]

I went with a stainless manifold, 25 taps per 3/16 tubing and a valve on each. Mountain Maple S3 Dual Controler with two Shurflo 4048’s (150 taps each) added a recirculating line with valve as well.

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[NhShaun]

Great photos, thanks for sharing. I am curious if anyone has set up a manifold with both 3/16 and 5/16 lines coming in. I can't see why it wouldn't work but figured i would throw it out there. I have a small piece of property i will be tapping this year with around 90-120 taps. I want to add a shurflo set up similar to what has been shared here or possibly just a 3/4 mainline right to the pump with 5/16 laterals. There is one section on a ledge that has a decent drop after the last tree around 12ft but the rest of the trees are in a low flat spot where the pump will be located. Thought about maybe utilizing the 3/16 for the 25 or so trees on the ledge.

[RC Maple]

How much vacuum are you seeing with all the ports on the manifold plugged? I have a mod#4008 and I am seeing 20"

I was trying to see which thread to ask a question or start a new thread. I flipped my 4008 pump on for the first time with it connected to my 5/16 lines yesterday. I have 3 lines coming into a 1/2" stainless manifold with a 3/16" recirculation line going into a 3-way valve. I also have a vacuum gauge at the end of the manifold and one near the end of each line. When flipping the switch yesterday, the most vacuum I saw at the manifold was 8" - only 5" without the recirculation valve on. It did run all night that way and I did find sap in the tank this morning but I haven't checked any buckets to compare the amount with. Thinking I must have leaks in the manifold, I took it off and retaped and tightened every fitting. After putting it all back together and turning it on I did watch the gauge climb to a new high - 10":cry: The gauges near the end of the lines also have higher readings but only 7 or 8". One line has 6 taps on it, another 5 taps, and the last one 2 taps. I know from reading here that I should be looking for 20" - 25" of vacuum. Any thoughts as to why after only a few inches of manifold I am only halfway there?

[NhShaun]

Do you have a strainer before your pump? I have heard of a few people having issues with the seal on those causing leaks. Ice clogging it could be an issue as well, Since it would be between your manifold and your gauge, it would read very little vac if clogged up.

[RC Maple]

Thanks. Yes, there is a strainer there. I can check it. I thought that the recirculation line I put in with the 3-way valve would be just to help when the system started running until the sap got to the pump. I've read where some people have them and never used them. When I turn that recirculation valve off, my vacuum drops quite a bit, even when it's getting sap.

[NhShaun]

I think people are typically using needle valves for the recirc function. The opinions and results tend to vary with the use or need of recirc lines on these low cfm pumps. If your lines are pitched really well to the pump and the sun hits them early you are less likely to need one. If they are flatter runs possibly with just 3/16 lines like some people are using, without much sun exposure. You may need one to get the vac up until the sap starts flowing well. The issue i see is being around to adjust the needle valve accordingly, depending on the day.
To anyone building a manifold for these pumps, i would suggest adding a recirc line anyway, as it would be easier to implement into the initial design than adding it later. It would also help diagnose and rule out problems with leaks and surging down the road. Plus who doesn't need one more valve to play with during the season?

[Martin Wollmann]

I don't understand this
elbow and make sure the fittings side is pointed up fittings side is pointed up
any pics?

martin

[RileySugarbush]

https://youtu.be/18RK7i22OBE

Here is my manifold. Just a piece of UHMW plastic drilled and tapped. Simple, small and works great. For reference, I don't have any temperature controller. I turn this on at the beginning of the season, and off at the end. No problems with freeze ups and the pump keeps going. 12V pump running on an old battery charger.

[NhShaun]

https://youtu.be/18RK7i22OBE
No problems with freeze ups and the pump keeps going. 12V pump running on an old battery charger.
Nice set up you've got there. Curious about how you connected the battery charger to the pump, are you not using a battery and just directly wiring it?

[RileySugarbush]

Nice set up you've got there. Curious about how you connected the battery charger to the pump, are you not using a battery and just directly wiring it?

Thanks. In my experience, the 12V Shurflo pumps last and the 120V AC ones don't. I have power nearby and use the battery charger to provide 12Vdc to the pump.

Another thing to mention: See how the pump is oriented? I have the inlet on top with a strainer and a good size inlet tube. The pump seems to work best that way.

[RC Maple]

I don't understand this
elbow and make sure the fittings side is pointed up fittings side is pointed up
any pics?

martin

Sorry, like others on the site, I am having trouble posting a photo. Coming right off the strainer I have a 3-way valve. After that are 3 t's and then an elbow, each with a 5/16 hose barb. The recirculation line coming off the valve has a 3/16 line going into the tank. With the 3-way valve open and no restriction in the line I get 8" Hg. If I close off the valve, the vacuum drops to 6". By putting a c-clamp on the recirc line to restrict the flow, i get my best vacuum which is 10" Hg. I did an experiment today. Moving the vacuum gauge to where the recirc line is and shutting off the rest of the manifold, I still only get <10" vacuum. At what point should I assume the diaphragm?

Also, what should the sap look like in a drop that is below the lateral? Should the line look full of sap? Most of my drops are above the lateral but the one or two that are not look to have sap sitting in them. Would they look this way at 20" too? At some point, does this sap get drawn up into the line?

Sorry for the questions. My hope was that once tapped and the pump running, I would be seeing vacuum numbers like others post about (20" or better). The good news is there is sap going in the tank. As a first timer though, without having seen a working set-up of anyone else's, I am trying to understand the flaws and make it work the best I can.

[littleTapper]

Sorry, like others on the site, I am having trouble posting a photo. Coming right off the strainer I have a 3-way valve. After that are 3 t's and then an elbow, each with a 5/16 hose barb. The recirculation line coming off the valve has a 3/16 line going into the tank. With the 3-way valve open and no restriction in the line I get 8" Hg. If I close off the valve, the vacuum drops to 6". By putting a c-clamp on the recirc line to restrict the flow, i get my best vacuum which is 10" Hg. I did an experiment today. Moving the vacuum gauge to where the recirc line is and shutting off the rest of the manifold, I still only get <10" vacuum. At what point should I assume the diaphragm?

Also, what should the sap look like in a drop that is below the lateral? Should the line look full of sap? Most of my drops are above the lateral but the one or two that are not look to have sap sitting in them. Would they look this way at 20" too? At some point, does this sap get drawn up into the line?

Sorry for the questions. My hope was that once tapped and the pump running, I would be seeing vacuum numbers like others post about (20" or better). The good news is there is sap going in the tank. As a first timer though, without having seen a working set-up of anyone else's, I am trying to understand the flaws and make it work the best I can.

Are you sure your gauge is accurate? Got another one to try?

I, and others, control recirculation with a needle valve. It doesn't take much so maybe there needs to be a bit more precision in your flow rate there. Hard to say without seeing it in action though.

[RC Maple]

Are you sure your gauge is accurate? Got another one to try?

I, and others, control recirculation with a needle valve. It doesn't take much so maybe there needs to be a bit more precision in your flow rate there. Hard to say without seeing it in action though.

I'm sure the gauge is pretty close. I also have a gauge on each of my three lines coming into the manifold. They all read about 1-2" less than the gauge on the manifold - which seems right to me. Two of those lines are about 500 ft long and the other is about 300 ft. I like the needle valve idea - might be my next improvement. I found that using my c-clamp on that line I was able to get the vacuum up to 11.5-12". This gets me 8-10" at the end of the laterals.

[littleTapper]

I'm sure the gauge is pretty close. I also have a gauge on each of my three lines coming into the manifold. They all read about 1-2" less than the gauge on the manifold - which seems right to me. Two of those lines are about 500 ft long and the other is about 300 ft. I like the needle valve idea - might be my next improvement. I found that using my c-clamp on that line I was able to get the vacuum up to 11.5-12". This gets me 8-10" at the end of the laterals.

Good deal! Nice when you can validate the equipment is measuring correctly! Needle valve probably would be a good next step.

[Frank sawman]

I use a six way star 12v shur flow pump last year gave me 20 on vacuum changed to a cheaper pump this year gives me a constant 27. I used pex with a toilet valve 1/4inch return line

[RC Maple]

I don't understand this
elbow and make sure the fittings side is pointed up fittings side is pointed up
any pics?

martin22695

I haven't revisited this thread for a while or tried to download a picture that the site wouldn't let me do last season...but it works now. Here is the photo of my pump and manifold. My issue is still the same...low vacuum and even less without recirculation. I have the recirculation valve off in the photo and you can see the vacuum I am getting. My 5/16" lines have very little slope so there will be no gravity from sap flow. I'm getting things around now and will retape fittings and check vacuum again before the season. I added hose clamps on the lines at the hose barbs but see most videos of good performing systems don't have them. How likely is it the pump is the issue for low vacuum levels? Again, my best vacuum at anytime last year was 15" - but usually about 12". With some wisdom gathered here, I'd like to be over 20".

[Biz]

22695

I haven't revisited this thread for a while or tried to download a picture that the site wouldn't let me do last season...but it works now. Here is the photo of my pump and manifold. My issue is still the same...low vacuum and even less without recirculation. I have the recirculation valve off in the photo and you can see the vacuum I am getting. My 5/16" lines have very little slope so there will be no gravity from sap flow. I'm getting things around now and will retape fittings and check vacuum again before the season. I added hose clamps on the lines at the hose barbs but see most videos of good performing systems don't have them. How likely is it the pump is the issue for low vacuum levels? Again, my best vacuum at anytime last year was 15" - but usually about 12". With some wisdom gathered here, I'd like to be over 20".

You might start off by removing and pressure testing the manifold assembly. Try looping the 5/16" barbs back on each other with tubing or otherwise block off all openings except one. Remove gauge. Then attach an air compressor fitting, pressurize to 25PSI, and dunk in a pan of water to find any leaks. The stainless fittings have to be sealed well. It's a bit of work but necessary IMO.

If possible, keep all of the sap line fittings blocked except one, and try to recirculate water or sap from a bucket with the pump. Use a 10' or longer piece of 3/16 line for this or use a needle valve to restrict flow. You should be able to get at least 20" vacuum, I usually get 24-25". I do this on all systems that I sell.

Once it is OK and set up with lines, look for any line that is more than about 50% air bubbles and/or moving much faster than the others. That line may be leaking. Try clamping off a line with needle nose vise grips with tubing over the ends. If vacuum goes up, that line is leaking.

A loose strainer bowl or fitting, or badly clogged strainer are other things to look at. Bad pump is a possibility but rare. There should be strong vacuum if you take the pump inlet off and place your hand over it. Good luck and let us know what you find out.

[RC Maple]

Good luck and let us know what you find out.

Great! Thanks for the info. Dealing with a setup that never seemed to be working how I thought it should was a continual wet blanket on my mood when I should have been enjoying the best time of the year. Hopefully, I will find the issue.

[nhdog]

Biz
good info you passed along. i have a question though, why should the return feed line to the pump be at lest 10' long

[Biz]

A longer 3/16” line will give you better vacuum due to the added friction of a longer line. If you have a small ball valve or needle valve, that will Provide the same type of restriction and tubing can be shorter or larger diameter.

Dave

[nhdog]

that is what i thought. i use a small ball valve on the return,makes it much controllable.

[deitzd]

RC Maple

How are you using the 3-way to control the flow of the recirc line? Just barely cracking it open? Or more? The goal of the recirc line is to keep the diaphragm and reed valves wet and nothing more. Any more flow than that is a direct loss of vacuum. Mine is controlled by a needle valve and I've found that adjustments in very small increments are what it takes to find the sweet spot for maximum vacuum.

Most 3-way valves are designed to turn off one side when another side is open. I know that some can be adjusted to operate in different ways. I'm not sure how yours is set up.

How old is your pump? The lighting in your photo makes it hard to tell. A few years ago I picked one up at a rummage sale that was obviously brand new, never used but very old. It didn't work well when I used it for the first time. I installed a diaphram rebuild kit and it ran great after that.

[RC Maple]

How are you using the 3-way to control the flow of the recirc line? How old is your pump?

My recirculation line is smaller to begin with. It's 3/16" or 1/4" that I picked up at the hardware store. I keep the valve open all the way. To restrict the flow, I used a c-clamp and restricted the size of the line with that until the gauge showed the best vacuum. I tried playing with contolling it with the valve, but the restriction on the line worked best. This is ok while everything is thawed out. When the sap in the tank is froze up in the morning and the small recirc line is froze too, I was getting very little vacuum. I would take the small hose off and thaw it out and try to find some liquid in the tank to get the end of that line into to give the pump some liquid to work with when it did warm up enough for the pump to kick on. The pump was new last year (2022).

[nhdog]

while there are lots of different ways to set up your feed back line i think you'll find that by using a needle or ball valve right in the line to your manifold. with your lines closed off, you watch your vacuum gauge on your manifold you can by adjusting the valve watch the vacuum rise and fall. just watch for your peak vacuum. you should see it rise and fall,on mine it will go between 7# up to 22#.

[MassMapleNut]

Built a rig like this last year with a little 4008 pump. Amazed at how much in increased my sap flow. My recirc line is just a piece of 3/16 tubing, with a CV tap on the end and a couple of stainless steel nuts to sink it in the tank. the check valve spout has a little ball in it and keeps it from losing too much suction, while letting it keep enough flow to keep the diaphragm wet and maximize the vacuum. I was seeing ~10inHg when I first put it together. Chased it down and found out I just had some loose connections. Once I fixed that, when the sap was flowing I was getting 22 on a slow day and 24inHg pretty consistently.

I also used the CDL star fittings, but saw on here somewhere someone had done the mainline with the saddles. If I build another one, that is likely what I will do. The star fittings work, but I've got more than 6 lines coming in now so I had to tee off right away to connect the new lines I ran.

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[RC Maple]

You might start off by removing and pressure testing the manifold assembly. Try looping the 5/16" barbs back on each other with tubing or otherwise block off all openings except one. Remove gauge. Then attach an air compressor fitting, pressurize to 25PSI, and dunk in a pan of water to find any leaks. The stainless fittings have to be sealed well. It's a bit of work but necessary IMO.

If possible, keep all of the sap line fittings blocked except one, and try to recirculate water or sap from a bucket with the pump. Use a 10' or longer piece of 3/16 line for this or use a needle valve to restrict flow. You should be able to get at least 20" vacuum, I usually get 24-25". I do this on all systems that I sell.

Once it is OK and set up with lines, look for any line that is more than about 50% air bubbles and/or moving much faster than the others. That line may be leaking. Try clamping off a line with needle nose vise grips with tubing over the ends. If vacuum goes up, that line is leaking.

A loose strainer bowl or fitting, or badly clogged strainer are other things to look at. Bad pump is a possibility but rare. There should be strong vacuum if you take the pump inlet off and place your hand over it. Good luck and let us know what you find out.

Thanks Biz! I did just what you said and took my manifold off my pump, hooked it up to the air line at 25psi and gave it a bath...it looked like a bubble bath.:cool: I wouldn't have thought with good job I thought I did with the thread tape that it could look like that. I used some thread sealant then and repeated the process until I didn't see any more bubbles. Finally - after several attempts it was time to runs some water through it. Here is the photo of my vacuum guage with the pump running like you suggested. I was able to get 26" with it but the guage shows 24" in the picture. Thats twice what I had last season on average. That should make this season a lot more interesting.
22702

[vtgaryw]

I just used a piece of 3/4" mainline and some dsd saddles for a manifold. No valves but it worked well. Be sure to have a recirc line just before the pump.

Hi,

Can you explain the recirc line? I’ve been using a ShurFlo setup for years, but have recently seen a few references to a recirc line? Where’s it run from/to?

[VTnewguy]

The shurflo pumps will pull more vacuum if the diaphragm is wet. This is accomplished by running a small line from your collection tank back to the front of the pump. Need have a valve inline to be able to throttle it back when it's not really needed. I found a pair of needle nose pliers work as well as a valve.

[tbone1]

The shurflo pumps will pull more vacuum if the diaphragm is wet. This is accomplished by running a small line from your collection tank back to the front of the pump. Need have a valve inline to be able to throttle it back when it's not really needed. I found a pair of needle nose pliers work as well as a valve.
Thanks for the explanation.. I'm still a bit confused.. some people talk about using a ball valve and just turning it off when the pump is off (that's what I saw on one youtube).. others talk about using a needle valve and sometimes some of the sap would be coming from the storage tank.. is that just so the diaphragm is wet? i.e. let's say you're not getting enough flow from the trees there will still be liquid going over the diaphragm because you're taking from the storage tank.. could you just use another 3/16" line for that.. Sorry if some of this has been "asked and answered". Cheers from cold and snowy Ontario today (yippee.. that will help the sap flow later!).

[Openwater]

My Shurflo 4008 is fed by 2, 5/16 lines going into a 3 way star fitting; I just plug the 3rd barb on the fitting. If I wanted to add another 5/16 onto the 3rd barb for a recirc line, what kind of needle valve would fit in-line on the 5/16 recirc line? I think I'd prefer the needle valve over the ball-valve.

[trevor47smith]

Howdy All,

Not to get off topic or Hijack... Maybe a little but was just reading into this type of setup and was wondering if there are other pump options that have been used successfully that easily purchased on Amazon Canada.

Was looking at this https://www.amazon.ca/DC-HOUSE-Diaphragm-Pressure-Priming/dp/B09ZQMVRFD/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2Q0X0TY272KHO&keywords=diaphragm+pump&qid=1676672809&sprefix=dia%2Caps%2C209&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyUlpYRllYNUhLVzBXJ mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTEzNjE3MVBTU005NVYwVDNPTSZlbmN yeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMjY4NDE4MkVWWFhEUFU5N1JXWCZ3aWRnZ XROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05 vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Understanding this would require the pressure switch to be bypassed.

[Hillcrest Maples]

I’ve built 3 or 4 variations and nothing has worked better than this. Pulls 25” all day long. No recirc. I kept the output side 3/8” od. I’m no expert, but it keeps the diaphragm wet by not dumping the sap so quick. I’ve done 1” and 3/4 pipe with tees and barbs but found the pump just pulled the sap out of the pipe too quick and the diaphragm wouldn’t stay wet.

[GanaSugar]

https://youtu.be/18RK7i22OBE

Here is my manifold. Just a piece of UHMW plastic drilled and tapped. Simple, small and works great. For reference, I don't have any temperature controller. I turn this on at the beginning of the season, and off at the end. No problems with freeze ups and the pump keeps going. 12V pump running on an old battery charger.

Great video, you should add a description for it. I love the UHMW manifold block.

[RC Maple]

I saw this setup on a youtube video and took a screenshot of it. Thought it looked like a great manifold. The video was in French, but I still liked the setup. Might be more leakproof than my 1/2" threaded fittings? I liked the shut off valves too.

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[DRoseum]

I have had great success using push fit connectors and poly tubing (3/8 and 1/4) to build vacuum manifolds. I use the following:

Tees: 3/8" to 1/4" to 3/8" OD tube Quick Connect: https://a.co/d/5dsfL93

1/4 push fit ball valve for each line

Barb fittings for each line: https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/dmfit-stem-barb-straight-connector-1-4-od-stem-x-1-4-id-barb

Super easy and cheap to build, very compact and scalable, easy to disassemble and clean, and allows you to isolate lines when chasing leaks or doing line maintenance. No drilling or tapping required, and can remove your lines easily at the end of the season. And the manifold plenum is smaller, which allows the pump to pull better vacuum.

Videos of different setups here:

https://youtube.com/shorts/2BnnBgATt8c?feature=share
https://youtu.be/aGFwYIskHww
https://youtu.be/ni3ScN3lhZs

Lots of us have some of these parts on hand from small DIY RO builds....another reason I went this rout.