A Few 3/16 Questions

[Kubota]

A few questions before I start tapping. This is my first year with tubing and this forum has been instrumental to me understanding things!

1. What is the tap life expectancy of 3/16 lines with CV spouts? Can I get 8 weeks of good running? It's my first year with tubing and I'll be split between 3/16 and buckets. I'd like to get an estimate on the 3/16 tap life so I can plan my season and when to tap the tubing in relation to the buckets. I'd like everything to "dry up" up together instead of starting everything together and the tubing running a few weeks past the buckets. I'm getting married in April, so any jump on the season with the tubing would be beneficial for me this year. Last year I got maybe 4-5 weeks out of my buckets.

2. Is is okay to make a full wrap with 3/16 line around a few trees in a tubing run. When I ran my lines I did a few complete wraps around a few trees to help keep tension. I believe I saw this on a youtube video somewhere and now I'm second guessing that maybe is will add too much friction and be counter productive. I couldn't justify a tubing tool this year so I had to string tubing and add in T's as I went. Keeping tension was a little bit of a battle and adding these wraps around a few trees helped a lot.

-Mike

[Maplesapper]

We have used the 3/16 tubing, natural downslope vacuum and enjoy the results.
You can pull the tubing quite tight- never had the need to loop around trees.
Exception being the start and end of the lines.
good luck

[Sugarmaker]

Mike,
Wrapping the tree may not be the best plan but still may work ok. Usually tight and down hill is the best method. You may wan to develop a tightening system. 3/16 and your season length? You will know after the season is over. If your on gravity only the CV spouts may not do much for you? Do you have slope to take advantage of the natural vacuum?
Keep boiling!
Regards,
Chris

[Kubota]

Thanks for the replies! I'm only on gravity. I have about 15' of elev. change between top and tank with most of the trees at the top. Hoping this can generate a decent amount of vacuum. I was hoping vacuum and CV spouts would extend my run length. Maybe I should temper my expectations.

My tubing end product is VERY tight, but without a tool, a PITA to string, add T, string, add T, continue 18 more times... the line would continually slack down when adding in each T. The wraps around the tree helped keep tension as I was running line. I will monitor during the season and if it looks to be a problem, I can try to cut them out. If the 3/16 works out this year, I'll hopefully plan for a tubing tool next year.

[DrTimPerkins]

If you are installing brand new tubing, CV are not necessary -- just use regular spouts. Your season could last up to 2.5-3 months from tapping (assuming you tap in January). Tap your tubing trees first whenever is good for you and your buckets later when it seems appropriate for the weather and normal season timing.

With 15' of drop (assuming this is across a reasonable distance and not 2,000 ft) you should get about 12" Hg of vacuum (at the top), and proportionally less as you move downslope. This assumes your system is leak-free (which it may not be if you're putting it together by hand and not using a tool). No vacuum at the very bottom.

Shouldn't be a need to wrap around trees, just tension them against other trees or saplings. However if that approach works for you -- go for it.

[Kubota]

If you are installing brand new tubing, CV are not necessary -- just use regular spouts. Your season could last up to 2.5-3 months from tapping (assuming you tap in January). Tap your tubing trees first whenever is good for you and your buckets later when it seems appropriate for the weather and normal season timing.

With 15' of drop (assuming this is across a reasonable distance and not 2,000 ft) you should get about 12" Hg of vacuum (at the top), and proportionally less as you move downslope. This assumes your system is leak-free (which it may not be if you're putting it together by hand and not using a tool). No vacuum at the very bottom.

Shouldn't be a need to wrap around trees, just tension them against other trees or saplings. However if that approach works for you -- go for it.

Awesome, thanks Dr Tim! I plan to tap the 3/16 soon as it has been unusually mild in southern New England and the forecast shows 14 straight days of 42-46 and 27-32 at night. Too good to pass up. It's great news that these should hopefully last into early-mid March.
I have that 15' of drop over 4-500' of tubing. I hope my system is leak free as I made extra care to fully seat my tubing over the double barb fittings. I boiled a pot of water and put in a thermos. I stuck the lines in for 15 seconds prior to fastening and was able to get all tubing to the stops. Hoping for the best.

Everything is new. I have everything assembled for CV spouts but do have plenty of regular spouts. Can the CV spouts have a negative effect? Is it necessary, or worth it, to switch everything back to regular spouts or will my CVs be okay? I have read it's possible (on rare occasion) for CVs to pass the ball through and clog the whole system.?

-Mike

[maple flats]

On my taps I get the 2.5-3 months if the weather doesn't go too warm for too long. 3/16 or 5/16 makes little difference if you have vacuum. On my 3/16 by far I prefer a 5/16 tap and drop, then the tee is 3/16 x 3/16 x5/16 (the 5/16 enters in the side of the tee) As Dr Tim says, CV is not needed the first year on new drops, then yes on year 2 and 3, then change the drop in year 4 with new tap (and TEE if on 3/16) In fact I change every tee in 3/16 laterals (and if you have connectors change them too every year. On 5/16 you don't generally need a new tee until you change the drop after season 3.

[DrTimPerkins]

I have everything assembled for CV spouts but do have plenty of regular spouts. Can the CV spouts have a negative effect? Is it necessary, or worth it, to switch everything back to regular spouts or will my CVs be okay? I have read it's possible (on rare occasion) for CVs to pass the ball through and clog the whole system.?


They won't hurt your production (may actually help a small amount even in the first year, but probably not enough to offset the cost).

I've heard people say the balls can go through and clog the system (I've heard all sorts of things...apparently all is fair in sales/marketing), but in 10 yrs (~5,000 taps/yr) with high vacuum (25-29" Hg) we've never had it happen even once. The one way I could envision it happening would be if you tap with the vacuum on and break several of the ball retaining teeth (if you're using the original adapter style) when you tap the spouts in, then when you put the stubby up to the spout it could suck the ball out of the adapter into the stubby/dropline. That would seem to be a pretty rare occurrence. That can't happen with the newer CV adapter style with the ball in the spout barrel.

[Kubota]

Thank you guys so much for the info. You helped me solidify my decision on tapping the tubing today. Still tons to learn and figure out but the lines are up, everything is tight and hoping for the best. All I'm after is two months on the tubing, so I should hopefully make it. I left the CV taps in because everything was already setup. It's only 30 taps on the tubing so its not a huge cost impact. I plan on using the regular taps on the buckets.

[Sugarmaker]

Keep in mind that mother nature is in control here, not you.:) We can have 4 week to 12 week seasons. Trying to time the start of tapping to get 6 weeks of good season is my goal on gravity 5/16 tubing. If you have a great weather forecaster then you will be good. I usually expect about 16 runs on average per season.
Regards,
Chris

[Kubota]

Keep in mind that mother nature is in control here, not you.:) We can have 4 week to 12 week seasons. Trying to time the start of tapping to get 6 weeks of good season is my goal on gravity 5/16 tubing. If you have a great weather forecaster then you will be good. I usually expect about 16 runs on average per season.
Regards,
Chris

The forecast is about as good as it gets. 14 straight days of ideal tapping.

I understand it's all about what mother nature decides to give but this year is a little unique for my season timing. I'm getting in married in April so I have to be done with syruping by mid March, regardless of weather. If I go much later than that there might not be a wedding lol. Also, we're giving maple syrup as our favors, so the pressure is on to at least get enough to provide 150, 4-6 oz favors. This early jump on the season hopefully helps me be sure we can get at least that. Lets hope it all works out!

20592

[Pdiamond]

Congrats on your marriage up and coming in April. May God Bless you with many years together. Good luck with this years sugaring, hope everything works well for you.