Most Productive Setup for Shurflo Vac

[kboone1]

Good morning all!

I will be as brief and concise as possible with this post (even though it is a bit lengthy), and let those of you that have experience take it from there. I have included pictures for reference that I think will help my cause and allow you to understand what I am thinking/trying without spending a lot of money. Any thoughts are priceless, as I am sure I need to hear some things to make my time more efficient than trial and error, and teach me where I am not correct in theory.

Background Info:
1. I have about 125 taps on 5 gravity 3/16th lines above the 3/4" mainline, no vacuum right now, run great.
2. Line 6 and 7 were run to barrels last year where they terminated in the field shown, and I am NOT doing that again, so I really want to find a way to get them to the shack (about 30 taps in total)
3. I want to run line 8 this year, which is level with my shack on all sides so I can grab 25 taps with it (no elevation).
4. I have a Shurflo 4048 12V pump that I plan to run manually this year (hopefully some extras next year with temp controller and valve), and have included a picture of the setup for reference.

Questions
1. Two part question. I want to try my best to get lines 6 and 7 to the shack with the Shurflo (I know a guzzler would work much better but it is what I have right now, so work with me ha-ha)
a. Based on the picture of my lines, do you think it would be a better shot to go back up the hill with lines 6 and 7 after the last taps, and attach the Shurflo to the current mainline, or
b. Hook a short mainline section up to the pump and attach several saddles and try and pull lines 6 and 7 to the shack from where they terminate at the field? I have to go under a culvert in the road but the climb back to the shack would
be about 10 vertical feet. It is 350 feet from where they currently terminate.

2. Do you think that with either of these ways, I could get line 8 to the shack by adding an additional saddle to the main. I hate that I can see the trees from my shack but can't tap them right now without a lot of physical effort.

I love the infrastructure part of sugaring, and I am trying to learn as much as possible. I know there are tons of great posts out there on general information ( I have read as many as possible), but I wanted to see if you all would help with this one specifically so I didn't have to spend tons of time with trial and error this close to tapping. Any thoughts are great thoughts, thanks as always!

Kody

[maple flats]

In the picture #2, it looks like you might be a dairy farm, or were. Do you possible have an old dairy vacuum pump around?
I ask, because it could do better than the Shurflo, especially for the lines needing lift.
I don't know if a Shurflo pump would be up to the task, unless you can put the pump at the low spot, run all of the lines to there, then push all of the sap up to the sugarhouse.
If you do have an old diary pump, run that and with that vacuum you can use either of 2 choices. Choice 1 is to set up a sap ladder for the taps in the low spot and another if lift is needed as the tubing exits the culvert. In that case all tubing should slope towards the sugarhouse, except the sap ladder. A sap ladder with just 1 vertical line (5/16") for each 15 taps max should work.
Choice 2 will cost less but will work, and will give you less sap yield. In that choice running the shurflo at the existing mainline, and adding a 3/16 line for the low taps, connect the 3/16 to the mainline a little before the Shurflo. I suggest in any shurflo set up that you also run a 3/16 from the line after the Shurflo back to the mainline shortly before the pump. In that line put a needle valve. In use you then open the needle valve just enough to keep the diaphragm wet, it works much better when wet. Also, whichever way you go I suggest you use DSD saddles, in my experience they have fewer issues.
If you use option 1, you will need a moisture trap and a releaser, either homemade or purchased. Check this forum in the Vacuum section and the homemade section. If you have an old dairy pump with a vacuum canister that can function as a moisture trap. The Shurflo does not need a moisture trap. On a dairy pump if you have a functional vacuum tank you do not need the releaser, but try to keep that tank in the shade.

[Super Sapper]

I would run as short a mainline as possible as a header or just use a header and bring all lines to it in 3/16. With having to go uphill on the last part a recirculation line would be a great help in keeping the vacuum level up. With this you can actually out produce a dairy vacuum pump as you will have higher vacuum at the tap hole. The system will need to be tight as the surflo pumps do not do well with leaks.

[kboone1]

In the picture #2, it looks like you might be a dairy farm, or were. Do you possible have an old dairy vacuum pump around?
I ask, because it could do better than the Shurflo, especially for the lines needing lift.
I don't know if a Shurflo pump would be up to the task, unless you can put the pump at the low spot, run all of the lines to there, then push all of the sap up to the sugarhouse.
If you do have an old diary pump, run that and with that vacuum you can use either of 2 choices. Choice 1 is to set up a sap ladder for the taps in the low spot and another if lift is needed as the tubing exits the culvert. In that case all tubing should slope towards the sugarhouse, except the sap ladder. A sap ladder with just 1 vertical line (5/16") for each 15 taps max should work.
Choice 2 will cost less but will work, and will give you less sap yield. In that choice running the shurflo at the existing mainline, and adding a 3/16 line for the low taps, connect the 3/16 to the mainline a little before the Shurflo. I suggest in any shurflo set up that you also run a 3/16 from the line after the Shurflo back to the mainline shortly before the pump. In that line put a needle valve. In use you then open the needle valve just enough to keep the diaphragm wet, it works much better when wet. Also, whichever way you go I suggest you use DSD saddles, in my experience they have fewer issues.
If you use option 1, you will need a moisture trap and a releaser, either homemade or purchased. Check this forum in the Vacuum section and the homemade section. If you have an old dairy pump with a vacuum canister that can function as a moisture trap. The Shurflo does not need a moisture trap. On a dairy pump if you have a functional vacuum tank you do not need the releaser, but try to keep that tank in the shade.

Dave,

Ha-ha, that's funny, those were old Praxair trailers, my neighbor leased that lot to them and they never moved. I do not have any dairy farm equipment, so no go there.

My choice 1 was more along the lines of how much lift could I get on the 3/16 from where their last taps are, up the hill to the main line if I used the shurflo on the main trunk as it is. I read a post from you a couple years ago where you did this with a piston pump, and was thinking it may work with my setup on the 3/4" main (obviously the pump isn't near what you had). Instead of running them all the way to the shack the flat 350 feet and through the culvert, could I just swing them back up the hill and attach to the main (lower lift gradient obviously). No ladders in this idea. I will plan to order the DSD saddles for sure regardless, already checked them out!

Thanks!

Kody

[kboone1]

I would run as short a mainline as possible as a header or just use a header and bring all lines to it in 3/16. With having to go uphill on the last part a recirculation line would be a great help in keeping the vacuum level up. With this you can actually out produce a dairy vacuum pump as you will have higher vacuum at the tap hole. The system will need to be tight as the surflo pumps do not do well with leaks.


Super Sapper,

This is what I was planning to do, and definitely will have a re-circulation line as you both mentioned, no question. I feel this that this would give me the best vacuum instead of pulling them back uphill to the main line. The only thing with the mainline is it would be a shorter line in total.

Kody

[Super Sapper]

On any uphill flowing lines the larger the line the harder it will be to move sap. The only way it can work would be using air (gases) to lift the sap as in a ladder. The shurflo pumps are not made to handle moving air efficiently and it will not work very well there. The line will fill with sap and you will not transfer vacuum very well to the taps.