Atlas Copco MES setup no moisture trap needed

[YaksSap1]

I am venturing into vacuum this season. I received information from MES who seem excellent to work with - very helpful.
They indicate that their setup uses a solenoid valve instead of moisture trap which is a more cost effective way to go and reliable. Anyone using this setup on the 25 or 40 sized pump? Results?

I am also seeking to utilize an electric extractor on up to 1200 taps. I have 280 feet from vacuum pump down to releaser and want to pump the sap back up to tank at vac pump from releaser. My land has little elevation change, so my 1" mainline is 24-27" high off ground at releaser in order to keep slope on mainline of 1-2%.
What releasers are out there and what brand/model has been successful for you in similar applications please? Any insights would be most helpful.

[WestfordSugarworks]

I like the MES solenoid valve that we have installed. We would have hundreds of gallons of sap release all at once when a freeze in the line would give out. It would overwhelm the release, moisture trap, and flood the pump. The solenoid valve prevents this and I wouldn’t see a need for a moisture trap- tho it wouldn’t hurt to have one. Ours just didn’t work well- maybe a different moisture trap woulda been more effective

[YaksSap1]

Thank you Westford Sugarworks. I appreciate you sharing your experience. What happens after the slug of sap lets loose when line freeze clears now that you are running the solenoid valve without moisture trap? In other words when this occurs, and the solenoid valve shuts, shutting down the vacuum pump, how does the sap gush clear out? Does the releaser pump eventually catch up clearing the vacuum line and he vac pump starts back up? Thanks again.

[DrTimPerkins]

It partly depends upon where your moisture is coming from. If it is from overfilling of the releaser, the solenoid valve will help, and perhaps obviate the need for a moisture trap. If it is from condensation in the air line between the releaser and the pump (if your pump is located some distance from the releaser), then the solenoid would not help. In either case, a moisture trap is a (relatively) cheap insurance policy for the pump. Similarly, having a pump go down due to moisture can negatively impact your production if it happens to be out of commission for a while during the best part of the season. We typically put two moisture traps in line with each pump for good measure, and use a CDL protection valve on the air line after the releaser https://www.cdlusa.com/produits/vacuum-protection-valve/ The advantage of that device is that it doesn't bleed air into the system like a solenoid does.

[claytski]

As tight woods Isthe norm, the moisture trap has gone to the wayside. Air movement is what brings moisture and condensation to the table. Tight woods = little to no air movement. Put your hand over the vac pump exhaust and you will see how much you are moving.

The solenoid valve is designed for instant shut off. The CDL protection valve is a butterfly valve with a 7 second open to close time. If you ever notice when a line thaws it fills up the releaser fast. You may not have 7 seconds. Or if the releaser is 3/4 full struggling to keep up, and one line thaws, its like a shot gun going off and you have a few seconds at best.

If you are tight in the woods and the solenoid shuts off, it gives some time for the releaser to manage the influx of sap. Then when the level goes back down the solenoid opens. If you are tight there is a good chance you wont loose any vacuum to the woods.

[DrTimPerkins]

Although a very tight woods will have less air movement (and the general rule of 1 CFM per 100 taps is on the high side in my opinion), there is still considerable air movement when the temperature rises due to gases coming from the tree itself (not from leaks). So you will always get some amount of moisture and condensation in the lines no matter how tight. A great deal depends upon how your system is plumbed in.

I agree that the solenoid valve would respond much faster. It wasn't available (that I know of) when we put in our CDL valve (which is a butterfly valve). Like all things, you need to install it correctly to avoid the problem you mention (liquid being pulled into the air line due to the delay in closing). How big a size does the solenoid valve come in?

[WestfordSugarworks]

Although a very tight woods will have less air movement (and the general rule of 1 CFM per 100 taps is on the high side in my opinion), there is still considerable air movement when the temperature rises due to gases coming from the tree itself (not from leaks). So you will always get some amount of moisture and condensation in the lines no matter how tight. A great deal depends upon how your system is plumbed in.

I agree that the solenoid valve would respond much faster. It wasn't available (that I know of) when we put in our CDL valve (which is a butterfly valve). Like all things, you need to install it correctly to avoid the problem you mention (liquid being pulled into the air line due to the delay in closing). How big a size does the solenoid valve come in?

I'm not sure the maximum size that MES sells the solenoid setup in, but we have a 1.5" installed in our Jericho woods. I don't believe it introduces any air into the system as it's a simple open/close contained system. Works great for us. It's been a lifesaver for us because few times a year, particularly on the sweetest, best runs of the year, the pump would get flooded with sap and shut off and we'd lose lots of sap. Or worse, our pump would continue to run full of sap and the veins would get destroyed.

[WestfordSugarworks]

Thank you Westford Sugarworks. I appreciate you sharing your experience. What happens after the slug of sap lets loose when line freeze clears now that you are running the solenoid valve without moisture trap? In other words when this occurs, and the solenoid valve shuts, shutting down the vacuum pump, how does the sap gush clear out? Does the releaser pump eventually catch up clearing the vacuum line and he vac pump starts back up? Thanks again.

The sap will back up the wet lines until the sump pumps can catch up. We have 12.5k taps on a releaser designed for 8k. Run a Atlas Copco GVS 200 vac pump, 7.5 horse. We keep a very tight woods but would benefit from a larger releaser and bigger pump, particularly on those days when there is lots of tree gas being releaser, as Dr. Tim is talking about.

[YaksSap1]

Thanks for all of the feedback on dialogue on this everyone.