Cross flow syrup pans vs Revolution style

[pls009]

I currently have a Leader Revolution syrup pan and have only three years of boiling experience. I haven't ever used the cross flow type pans and am wondering if people with more experience could offer their views on which they prefer. It just seems like I battle my current pan in regards to wanting to make syrup in the middle of the pan and keep thinking that maybe the cross flow pans might be more consistent. Thanks in advance for any insight from your experiences.

[BAP]

I currently have a Leader Revolution syrup pan and have only three years of boiling experience. I haven't ever used the cross flow type pans and am wondering if people with more experience could offer their views on which they prefer. It just seems like I battle my current pan in regards to wanting to make syrup in the middle of the pan and keep thinking that maybe the cross flow pans might be more consistent. Thanks in advance for any insight from your experiences.
What size evaporator?

[pls009]

What size evaporator?


3X12 - Syrup pan is 3X4 - Thanks

[upsmapleman]

I have the same set up you do and do not have that problem. I went to a boiling seminar at Lake Erie Expo a couple of years ago put on by Bruce G. (from Leader)which helped me alot. After going to that I usually have my 1st draw in 10 mins and runs smooth from then on. The other difference I have is I now use natural gas. If using wood any change in firing will cause a change. Bruce said problems like this can be caused by not using enough defoamer, not keeping sap level the same and not using a timer to fire with. Try adding say 5 drops of defoamer to back pan and 2 to front pan every 7 mins. Set a timer to fire every 6 to 8 mins if you fire with wood to keep fire as even as possible. Try to keep level as even as possible. Also try to get a steady draw. If you draw alot at 1 time fresh sap running in will change everything. I often experienced the same problem but with some work to keep things running the same it went away. Good luck.

[pls009]

I have the same set up you do and do not have that problem. I went to a boiling seminar at Lake Erie Expo a couple of years ago put on by Bruce G. (from Leader)which helped me alot. After going to that I usually have my 1st draw in 10 mins and runs smooth from then on. The other difference I have is I now use natural gas. If using wood any change in firing will cause a change. Bruce said problems like this can be caused by not using enough defoamer, not keeping sap level the same and not using a timer to fire with. Try adding say 5 drops of defoamer to back pan and 2 to front pan every 7 mins. Set a timer to fire every 6 to 8 mins if you fire with wood to keep fire as even as possible. Try to keep level as even as possible. Also try to get a steady draw. If you draw alot at 1 time fresh sap running in will change everything. I often experienced the same problem but with some work to keep things running the same it went away. Good luck.


Thanks for the reply! - I have a feeling that most of my issues are related to having a steady fire and even fire. We use a timer but using wood is definitely a challenge.

[Potters3]

I have a revolution 30x12 (30x4 syrup) have learned a few tricks
consistent fire, (from Bruce)
leave pan a little shallow at end of night so you are calling for sap once hot. Moves the gradient along. If it gets flooded and stops calling for sap it will turn in the center first.
once you get to syrup the first time, try to leave valve just cracked to keep everything flowing, syrup out and sap coming in, tricky but once you get it set it runs awesome.

I haven't boiled on crossflows but have seen a bunch in operation. I don't like how the plumbing attaches, it is hard to reach into or see into the pans over all the plumbing. I keep looking at them because they look like they would be a lot easier to remove and clean. Or swap out when they need cleaning

[johnallin]

I've boiled on a Revolution syrup pan for four years now, the arch is a Leader 2x6 with their Patriot raised flue pan. I switched to the Revolution pan because reversing flow was so much simpler. Other than that I'd say they both seem to want to make syrup in the middle channels. That's pretty common for wood-fired evaporators though.

For what it's worth - here's what what works on mine, but as Dr Tim P likes to say "your mileage may vary."

-As mentioned, steady firing has a big influence. Depending on the wood - and how it's burning that day - we try to fire on 6-8 minute intervals. If the wood is softwood, such as cherry and burning too quickly, I've experimented with 2 or 3 pcs of wood every 3 minutes just to keep it steady. If we get into some of the locust (really hard wood that burns like rocket fuel) it can be closer to 8 minutes. I have a temp dial on the stack and watch it closely.

-Adding just a drop of defoamer in the corner right at the draw-off box at each firing should help pull syrup around and move it from the middle.

-Being able to keep sap moving through the pan would be awesome, but I've never been able to maintain even the smallest continuous draw.

-I keep my level at about .75" to 1.25" max. I've found that if too deep; it takes forever to make syrup and draws are huge and really far apart...like over an hour.
-Once I get the fire and level dialed in they are about 20 minutes apart - you can almost set your watch.

Sad part about all of this is that it's easy to type it all out step-by-step on a keypad with no distractions, but in real-life I may not get it all dialed in until mid-season or second to last boil....

Hope this is helpful.

[nymapleguy607]

For what its worth,

I have a 2x2 standard reverse flow syrup pan, what I have found over the years is that by watching my stack thermometer (digital readout) I am able to adjust the air to the arch and maintain within about 200 degrees my stack temp. This goes a long way to keeping the heat consistent. The other and probably most important thing is to watch the stream of sap coming into the syrup pan float box. I have seen niter flake off and hold this float open so it is dumping excess sap and makes the syrup start coming off in batches. I will usually open the syrup pan float briefly after every draw off or if it seems to be taking a long time to get to another draw off. Defoamer use is a big thing too, to keep from batching syrup. I add 5 drops to my flue pan every 7-10 minutes and 3 drops to the steamaway.

[maple flats]

Those are all good ways to help. I have a 3x8 raised flue with a 4 channel cross flow syrup pan (3x3). I will not try to say I never get near making syrup in the middle sections, but I found a few things that help. My head tank is almost 2' higher than my inlet float box. Until 3 years ago I ran continuous draw (or as long as I could). I started that back when I had a 2x6 drop flue that only boiled about 25 gal/hr., it can be done. With the 2x6 I often got draws that were 30-40 minutes long before I had to close the valve for a while, my average with the 2x6 was maybe 20-25 minutes long. When I got my 3x8 10 years ago, I often got draws that were 40-60 minutes long (boiling raw sap). Then in 2012 I got my RO and concentrated to about 8% the first 2-3 seasons, (I now concentrate to 10-13%) a continuous draw was then easier, but I still never got one much over an hour long.
Then in 2016 I added an auto draw. At first I had a few times when I made syrup in the middle sections but once I found the right amount to set the manual valve at (just ahead of the auto draw valve) I got much better at it. I rarely get syrup in the middle until I reverse the flow. Reversing flow mid boil does often give me some syrup in the middle. I'm working on ideas to correct that. I found that immediately after reversing the flow, if I draw about 1.5 gal off the new draw channel and pour it slowly into the old draw channel it helps a lot.
I used to fuel every 8-9 minutes ever since I installed AOF and I added 6 drops of defoamer at each fueling in the inlet corner of the flue pan. I almost never needed to use defoamer in the syrup pan. Then in 2018 I added an auto defoamer on the flue pan. I adjusted that to dispense 1 drop every 80-90 seconds. That worked the best yet to prevent making syrup in the middle (except after reversing the flow. I still am trying to improve that).

[devils11217]

I see a few of you talk about the importance of defoamer to aid in not making syrup in the middle of the syrup pan. Can you explain why that is? I use defoamer, but only did to keep the foam down. what other added benefit am I missing? Sorry if this is an obvious answer

[Sugarmaker]

Regular defomer ( 1-2 drops each time you fire) added at the input into the warm sap in the rear pan can help the entire operation. Then one or two drops near the draw off point (each time you fire ) can help draw the syrup from the center partitions. Making syrup in the center partitions can be for several reasons. as in:
Fresh sap start up.
next day start up
very hot fire only under center partitions.
AOF pushing fire to center of arch.
Probably others I havent thought of.
Keeping a good eye on the bubbles during start up can help keep from making syrup in the center. Defoamer can help but you really need to get the syrup moving out of the center partitions towards the draw off and set up the gradient.
Oh yea have a OH S..T bucket handy at all times too!
I have had it happen many times.
Regards,
Chris