sap ladders

[H. Walker]

I have a technical question for all you vacuum Guys. I have a lot of fence line sugar maples that run really well that makes buckets a very slow process. The problem is that the most slope I have is 0% to 1% over 1000 ft.. My question, with vacuum, would it be better to be happy with that slope or make a series of sap ladders and try to get 3% slope or more? Which would yield more sap?
I said last spring after having to go to some of the trees twice to get all of the sap that there has to be a better way! Work smarter, not harder!!

[802maple]

Depending on how many taps you have,I would use the ladder system. The ladder system starts dropping off after 200 taps, though you can go higher than that. I just set a system up on very flat ground here in Vermont. I ran about 200 taps back up hill in about that same amount distance. The slope was about 3 feet lower at the low end and I used 3 ladders

In your situation I would use 2 ladders with about 3 to 4 feet of drop in about 300 feet. With your natural elevation drop and what you have added with your ladder sytem it should work just fine.

[PATheron]

I have a related question. I have a few taps, maybe 10 or so that are lower than my tanks and releaser. There close and decent trees. They probly fall 10 feet below the main out 50'. Can I just run the lat level along the trees and then right up to the main? Will it suck it up being that close to the pump or forget them? Theron

[maplwrks]

Theron,
Give it a shot----I've seen weirder things happen. I did actually see a producer do exactly that this past season, just to see if it would work. I was amazed at how far he was pulling it up to the mainline. If you think about it, if you can lift sap in a ladder 10-12feet, why would it not work like you want it to??
Mike

[PATheron]

Thats what I figured Mike, what have I got to loose. If I dont get them no big deal but Ill see what happents. Looks a little funny. Theron

[H. Walker]

802, If I were to do the run in 3 steps that would mean that the 1st ladder would have 50 taps, the 2nd ladder another 50 + the first 50, and the 3rd ladder would be drawing up 150 taps. At that amount it wouldn't give much room for expansion, correct?

[royalmaple]

You are not limited to one star fitting per lift. The more taps you end up adding you can add another star at the bottom and make another ladder, better vacuum transfer to the line and more chance to get sap up into the mainline.

Or you can run one trunk main line that has constant pitch, say from the start of the middle lift to the releaser, then you have one section at the beginning, pick up 50 taps, up into the trunk line with a ladder. The next section will have the trunk line above but taps go into another mainline below. THen at the low point, another ladder up into the trunk line. Repeat for the last section of taps closest to the releaser unless the trunk line is now low enough that you can easily put latterals directly into the mainline.

This will allow you to have fewer taps at each ladder, and make it so you are not lifting the same sap 10 thousand times before it hits the releaser. Might be more in tubing, but less lifting of the same sap.

[802maple]

You can go beyond the 200 taps as I pointed out but the efficiency drops fast from that point because of the vacuum transfer lost. In the set up that I was trying to explain, you would only have 2 lifts, I was hoping you wouldn't have to lift it at the tank. Do you have many trees beyond that point, where the 150 taps are? The only lift as I understand it, that would have 150 is the nearest lift to your tank, is that correct?

Another setup is using one of the new sap lifting systems at the nearest lift and using ladders from there on. My understanding is that they don't lose any vacuum at the lift.

I was at sugarmaker up in the UP of Michigan one time that had the same problem as you, as anyone that has been there knows it is very flat there. He didn't have any lifts but he started his mainlines as low as he could at the releaser and went out about 600 to 750 feet in all directions from his tank, raising his mainlines 6 to 7 feet above that point and he ran all of his 5/16's tubing at waste level until he got to the mainline and then went straight up into his mainline and he was consistantly making large volumes of syrup around 4 lbs per tap plus or minus

[Dennis H.]

Sorry for this question but what is a sap ladder. :confused:
For some reason I keep thinking of a fish ladder that they place at dams for fish to migrate up river.

How does it work?

[royalmaple]

Click on my video links and you can see several in action.

[Fred Henderson]

Ok I watched the vedios but what force pulls the sap up the ladder?

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Vaccuum pump.

[H. Walker]

802 + Royal thanks for your help! That Michigan setup that 802 mentioned really sounds interesting and would make clean-up easy!

[802maple]

Your welcome, remember keep a open mind and use everybodies ideas to your advantage. I never seem to go anywhere without learning something even up to Royals. He is a pretty good guy even if he is from downeast.

[royalmaple]

Jerry above the belt please. At least I got an ro now for next season so you won't pull your hair out waiting for syrup to come off willy.

[802maple]

The only effective hit there is,is below the belt. You know that.

You are right old Willy and RamOna probably will work extra hard just so they can have some free time to themselves so they can get romantic.

[royalmaple]

I'll have to run an afterhours cd in the squak box for willy and ramona. Maybe air supply or some barry white for proper mood.

[802maple]

I think it will be more along the lines of Sinatra

[Russell Lampron]

AC/DC when he is boiling though!

Russ

[802maple]

Yeah ACDC would fit perfectly.

[royalmaple]

Another perfectly harmless post, HIJACKED. We are going to be put on administrative restrictions pretty soon.