Homemade Electric Canner...No Heat

[Amber Gold]

Hi Everyone,

I had a water jacketed canner made for me and all I have to do is wire it up. I thought the wiring would be pretty simple, mainly because I could copy what was done on my old electric canner. It's pretty simple: main power supply into a distribution box, wire run to the temperature controller (I can get you the model if needed), and then connections made to the two water heater elements. So I get it all wired, and nothing. I get out the multimeter, and it says I have 120V power to each lead on the water heater elements, but they're not turning on. How can I have power at the heating element terminals, but they don't generate heat? I poked around with the multimeter, and I think I have power everywhere I should. I ran out of ideas on where the issue is, but I'm assuming it's something simple.

Any help you guys can provide in diagnosing the issue is much appreciated.

[maple flats]

Are the elements 120V or 240V? Most are 240. What is labeled on the element, they should say?
If they are 120V elements and the multi meter shows 120, check the neutral wire, it may not be making the connection. To check that shut the power off and check continuity between the neutral terminal on the element and the source, either a plug or maybe the neutral bus in the breaker box. If it's 2 elements, run them in parallel not in series. Also check the temp controller, is it making contact? it might just be set too low to turn on.

[Shaun]

How can I have power at the heating element terminals, but they don't generate heat?

Solid State devices can leak voltage and be difficult to trouble shoot. The model number would help.

[Amber Gold]

Thanks for all that.

They're 240V elements. Each terminal on the element has 120V going to it. I grounded the wire going to the element to the canner itself (there is no grounding terminal on the element) and all the ground wires in the distribution box are connected to each other.

The temp. controller bottoms out at maybe 120 degrees...I forget, but it's much higher than the water temp at 55 degrees.

I'll check continuity to the disconnect. I didn't think to check that.

[DrTimPerkins]

Are you getting 120V regardless of the position of the temp controller?

[Russell Lampron]

Were the elements immersed in water when you turned on the power? If they're water heater elements they need to be immersed or they will burn out almost immediately.

[Amber Gold]

Dr. Tim. Yes I believe so. I did change the temp and still had 120V.

Russ. Yes immersed in water.

I also installed a shutoff switch on one of the elements, so I could reduce the electrical load if needed. The power does get shut off to the heating element terminals when it's off.

[Zucker Lager]

I learned what Shaun explained in his post that you can get a "false" reading on wiring because of induced voltage or leakage through a solid state component but if you check with a "load" in place its gone. Try using a light bulb style tester to check the voltage at the heater. You can actually use a light bulb in a socket with wires connected Making sure its a 220 bulb if you check across the two leads a 110 volt bulb will work if you check from each lead to ground. I use a Wiggi https://www.amazon.com/Square-D-WIGGY-VOLTAGE-TESTER/dp/B000BVXW1C for checking this kind of thing. Jay

[WVKeith]

Do you have 240 V across the heating element? You could have 120 V from each wire to ground, but no current through the element if both leads are the same phase.

[Amber Gold]

The temp. sensor I have is a Honeywell T675A. Link to manual below here (https://customer.honeywell.com/resources/Techlit/TechLitDocuments/60-0000s/60-2200.pdf).

I finally had time to look into it last night, and the help you guys provided in this thread was quite helpful. WVKeith, I tested your idea, and you were right that I didn't have 240 volts across the two terminals.

I also tested continuity to ground everywhere, and that was good.

I connected the shutoff switch directly to each heating element, and they turned on, so that made me think the issue was somewhere in how I was wiring everything together inside the distribution box and/or the temp. controller.

I had the idea of checking continuity in the switch itself...if the temp is low, there should be continuity between 2 of the 3 terminals, and these are the two I need to connect to. Turns out, I wasn't connected to the correct terminals...oops. I got the distribution box wired back up in full, wired to the correct terminals on the temp. controller, and turned it on...I've got heat! So I let it get to 160F, elements turn off automatically, turn it up to 170, it comes back on, and then turns off at 170. The controller was turning the elements off early (about 10F), at least compared to the dial thermometer I have reading the water jacket itself. I need to check the calibration on the dial therm., but I think controller can be calibrated too...or I just turn it up 10F higher to compensate.

Anyways, thanks for the help on this issue. Getting into sugaring has taught me a lot about playing an electrician, but I'm certainly not an electrician. The final test will be this weekend, when I use it to bottle syrup.

[maple flats]

If the controller can't be calibrated, test the thermometer in boiling water and determine what temp it should boil at for your elevation and the baro pressure at that time, then either make note or adjust the thermometer if it can be.
Even if no adjustments are possible, you just need to determine what you want the thermometer to read for the temp desired.
I like to run my bottler at 187+/-1, it seems to be that close. Yours may be a wider spread, just be certain it is never below 180 nor over 190F and it should be fine.

[Amber Gold]

Thanks and will do. The controller has an adjustable swing from 3-10 degrees...I have it set to 3 degrees.

[maple flats]

That will be good, mine has no adjustment in the swing, but it has a swing as I described, set point +/-1, that is a 3 degree too, 186-188, or is it 2? degrees

[blurr95]

Would you be willing to share some specs on your canner. I am wanting to build one for myself, but unsure of the elements and t-stat. I am a sheet metal worker by trade and specialize in custom fab work and welding, so making it won't be a problem, just not sure on the electronics end.

Thanks Jason

[Amber Gold]

Used the canner over the weekend, and it worked great. The other canner had a 1F swing, which I think I like better than the 3F swing. I do notice the syrup temp dropping more than my old canner.

Jason, yes I can.

Size the inner tank for what you want. I had spot I wanted it to fit in the sugarhouse, so I built it to fit. The inner tank is 24"Wx15"Dx26"T I think. Those are off the top of my head. There's a 2" water jacket all around. There is a 4500W water heater element on both sides. There are 1.25" couplings welded to the bottom of the outer jacket to thread the elements into (they're under the inner jacket). There's a 3/4" coupling welded to the front corner to drain the outer jacket. I would need to get the specs on the thermostat, but I got it from Webb. The wiring works, but I want to redo it. I should've had the fabricator weld hooks on the canner to run the wire through. All the wiring goes through a 2-gang electrical box (I may change this to a bigger distribution box) with a on/off switch, so I can shut off one of the elements during the season. With the RO/evap running, I can't run both elements on the canner, so I shut one off.

I can post pics too.

[blurr95]

that's great, thank you so much.

Jason

[Sugarmaker]

Amber Gold,
Glad you got it! Hope your new canner meets or exceeds your expectations! I had to wait 28 years for the grandson to get trained and working as a electrician, and he still doesnt do auto wiring, tractor wiring or custom. Mainly residential and commercial.
Regards,
Chris

[Amber Gold]

No problem Jason. Let me know if you have other questions.

Thanks Chris. I've used it a couple times so far. I've put about 50 gal of syrup through it. Still a couple things to work out, but it's working great as-is. I think I have about $1500 into this build for a canner that holds ~35 gal of syrup with some freeboard. I'm happy.

[blurr95]

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I am getting ready to build a smaller version of this canner. I have been looking into your Honeywell temp controller that you used, and it looks like the specs only show it going up to 170 degrees. Is that correct? Doesn't syrup need to be canned or bottled at 185-195 degrees? If that's the case, how are you getting to canning temp? Just wanting to make sure on the temp controller before I buy one.

Thanks, Jason

[Amber Gold]

No, it maxes out at like 240F or something.

Yes syrup needs to be 180-190F.

[blurr95]

No, it maxes out at like 240F or something.

Yes syrup needs to be 180-190F.

OK, thanks. That's what I thought on the syrup temp. As for the temp controller, I have been talking to some electricians at work and they have been showing me some different options. Can't wait to get this build going.

Thanks,Jason