Steam Pans

[Jaredd91]

Im trying to figure out what most people do on here for a steam pan. Would i be better off with a few smaller pans or one big pan? What size is best? Also where is the best place?

[mol1jb]

Main thing you want to think about is sap depth. Having 1 inch of sap boils a lot faster and starts much quicker than 4 inches of sap. Steam pans don't vary a lot in size. I bet you could dig up a lot of evaporators with a steam pan design on this forum.

I think I bought mine on Amazon (cheapest) but if you want to go through a maple dealer I know bascom has them.

Below was my first evaporator made out of a 55 gallon drum. I first made it into a wood stove with the converter kit and cut two holes in the top that the pans fit into.
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[DRoseum]

Agree with comments about sap depth. You want to keep it thin to have better boiling efficiency. However a deeper steam pan is nice to help contain splashes from boiling and when it foams up as your boil approaches syrup density/temp. That said the more pans the better so (1) you can keep depth lower and (2) you could keep sap in stages. For example, imagine 3 pans, one could be fresh sap, one closest to syrup and one in middle that is in between. Keep moving your boil from one pan to next to emulate the benefits of continuous flow evaps. Amazon is a good source for full size 6 inch deep steam table pans.

[Wannabe]

This was the cheapest place I could find them.
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/choice-full-size-standard-weight-anti-jam-stainless-steel-steam-table-hotel-pan-6-deep/4070069.html

And yes the more pans the better.

Not sure how many taps you plan on having but I stole this guys idea on building one, but I have 4 pans down inside. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a83Yv2m6HKQ. Cheap, easy, no welding. Regular old house bricks without the holes in them will work good enough for the firebricks too.

[mol1jb]

Here is a block configuration that my dad has used for many years.

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[Swingpure]

This is an interesting thread for me having not boiled before. I was going to start off with 4” of sap in each pan and when it got down to 3”, start ladling from one steam pan to the other.

If I understand this thread, I want to start off with more like 2” of sap and I guess start to ladle about an inch deep. (which on the surface sounds tough to ladle at that depth)

[berkshires]

This is an interesting thread for me having not boiled before. I was going to start off with 4” of sap in each pan and when it got down to 3”, start ladling from one steam pan to the other.

If I understand this thread, I want to start off with more like 2” of sap and I guess start to ladle about an inch deep. (which on the surface sounds tough to ladle at that depth)

You want to try to keep the depth in your pans fairly constant over the course of the boil. How deep you go is a matter of personal preference. The shallower you go, the more gallons per hour you will get, but you also need to watch it like a hawk. In my previous evaporator, once I knew it well, I was running at around 3/4 of an anchor, and never burned the pans. However if you might need to go split more wood or gather sap, you will want more sap in the pans as a cushion.

2" is a conservative depth if you're just starting out.

GO

[Swingpure]

You want to try to keep the depth in your pans fairly constant over the course of the boil. How deep you go is a matter of personal preference. The shallower you go, the more gallons per hour you will get, but you also need to watch it like a hawk. In my previous evaporator, once I knew it well, I was running at around 3/4 of an anchor, and never burned the pans. However if you might need to go split more wood or gather sap, you will want more sap in the pans as a cushion.

2" is a conservative depth if you're just starting out.

GO

Thanks. I can understand it now, the lower the depth, the higher the boil rate, and the deeper the depth, the less you need to baby sit it. I can also understand now at least one reason why people migrate to a larger pan. At a shallow boiling depth, it will be a pain to ladle the sap from one pan to another. I will play that one by ear, boiling rate versus ease of ladleing.

I also decided it I will get another steam pan for sure for the hot plate

[berkshires]

Thanks. I can understand it now, the lower the depth, the higher the boil rate, and the deeper the depth, the less you need to baby sit it. I can also understand now at least one reason why people migrate to a larger pan. At a shallow boiling depth, it will be a pain to ladle the sap from one pan to another. I will play that one by ear, boiling rate versus ease of ladleing.

I also decided it I will get another steam pan for sure for the hot plate

The biggest reason to get a larger pan is that with steam tray pans you're not using a lot of your hot surface area. It may not seem like a lot with one or two pans, but I think you're up to five pans now, with your addition of a small pan in the back? That's something like 2" between each pan, plus about an inch along the length of the whole block arch on each side.

If my math is right, that's 20 inches wide * 4 gaps between pans = 80 inches, plus something like 50 inches along each side = 100 inches. Add them together and that's 180 square inches of surface area that's being wasted, or well over a gallon of evaporation per hour.

GO

[Sugar Bear]

I have been steam panning for 6 years now. The first 4 years were with 3 steam pans and the last 2 years with 4 steam pans. One of many things I have learned through my steam panning years is that while its true the shallower you boil in pans the better rate of evaporation you will get, it is also true that the shallower the sap is in your pans the darker your syrup is going to be, especially if the sidewalls of your pans are in the flames. This is because you will get burning on the sides of the pans. The higher the sugar count in the pan the more susceptible it is to sidewall scorching, darkening and well .... that flavor that is mistaken by some as "robust flavored syrup".

Through the use of angle iron I keep the sides of my steam pans out of the flames and in addition I run sap on the high side at least 2 inches. Thus I have been able to produce some light and lot of medium high quality syrup.

When pour off time comes to the sugar pan, I let the fire die down a bit. then take the high sugar pan off the fire, pour it in a pot for filtering/finishing and then fill it with fresh sap/concentrate. I then move each pan down the line one spot and put the pan I just poured off back at the start of then line. My pans are out of the fire box so they are easy to grab and quickly move.

This diminishes sidewall scorching as it rotates the sugar content in the pans. (pans with the highest sugar content scorch the easiest and I still get a little even though my sidewalls are up out of the flames) . Hint .... I also use flat iron in conjunction to the angle iron between the pans.

In the past my boil time has run into the midnight howls of the coyote gangs of Devils Den Preserve.

This past season I did the home built 4 cannister 150 GPD RO and found that with the efficiency it provided my 4 steam pans never saw boil time into the darkness of the night. I was done by then.

If I were starting over I would have done it just the way I did, going from steam pans to RO rather then steam pans to a divided flat pan.

That is not to say that I might not move additionally onto a divided flat pan as well, but as of now I have 50 taps and with RO in play now I feel I would need at least 100 taps before I considered a divided flat pan. At this point the weak link in the efficiency of my operation is the number of taps I have.

By the way ... the reason you get a better evaporation rate with shallower sap is only because you are more easily able to heat the sap to the maximum evaporation rate. If Your sap is deep and your fire is hot enough it evaporates just as fast at 4 inches deep as it does at 1 inch deep.

[Swingpure]

Through the use of angle iron I keep the sides of my steam pans out of the flames and in addition I run sap on the high side at least 2 inches. Thus I have been able to produce some light and lot of medium high quality syrup.

When pour off time comes to the sugar pan, I let the fire die down a bit. then take the high sugar pan off the fire, pour it in a pot for filtering/finishing and then fill it with fresh sap/concentrate. I then move each pan down the line one spot and put the pan I just poured off back at the start of then line. My pans are out of the fire box so they are easy to grab and quickly move.

This diminishes sidewall scorching as it rotates the sugar content in the pans. (pans with the highest sugar content scorch the easiest and I still get a little even though my sidewalls are up out of the flames) . Hint .... I also use flat iron in conjunction to the angle iron between the pans.
.

Would you have any pictures of your angle iron and flat iron setup?

Thanks

[Sugar Bear]

These were my pans in 2016. Three pans with 1/4" by 4" running the length of the pans on each side ( front to back ). On top of that 1/8" by 1.5" angle iron running across the pans turned up holding each pan in place. 1/8" by 1.5" flat iron between each set of angle irons. Short pieces of 1/8" by 1.5" angle iron at the ends of all pans to block draft.

Bricks on sides ... but also used scrap wood to prevent cool draft moving across sides of pans. Wood will want to flame on eventually so be careful if you use it. Bricks seem to work better but are more work with placement removal.

1/8" by 1.5" inch angle iron from old bed frames can be used but be sure to flash off any paint with a nice fire before sugaring season. God knows what is in old bed frame paint.

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[Sugar Bear]

This was my first season back in 2016 with three steam pans with sidewalls out of the firebox.

Seven boils beginning with the first boil on the left. Space between jars indicates a boil. Season started in late January and ended with a seventh boil at the end of March far right and very dark. The syrup color followed the temperatures very closely that year. A cold spell in late March lightened the syrup up a bit for boil 6 second from right

I was meticulous that year with scooping. But well placed steam pans and at least a bit of scooping will make the highest quality syrup that can be made. Don't bother with a ladle ( that is a bad joke ) use a small pot ( Git er done! )

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[Sugar Bear]

The net effect of having steam pan sidewalls away from the flames and having dry firewood can not be overstated in a back yard sugaring operation. Two simple and easily achievable tasks.

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[Swingpure]

Thank you for all of the pictures, information and tips. I really like the idea of having the lips of the steam trays above the concrete blocks in order to grab them and I can appreciate blocking the flames from going up the 20” sides. I also think there may be an advantage to having the pans sunken down into the fire box. I might have a solution for me that accomplishes both goals.

I have been told the metal on the sides is not a good idea and I will have to learn that the hard way, but until I do, I could weld angle iron on to the steel walls at such a height that the steam pan lips sit an inch above the blocks. I could also have 4” wide metal bars spanning the angle iron, that would block the flames from coming up the sides of the pans.

The attached crude drawing has a red arrow showing the approximate height of the angle iron and the yellow lines showing where the metal could go.

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[Swingpure]

I purchased the 1/4” thick, 1” wide angle iron today. A friend will weld it onto my sidewall metal sheets. I also purchased some beefy 1/4” thick, 4” wide steel plates that will rest on the angle iron and will prevent the flames from coming up the sides of the pans. The pans will still be below the top of the cinder blocks by about 4 3/4”, giving me about an 1 1/4” space to be able to grab and lift a steam pan if I so desired.

I can always remove the 4” wide steel plates, if for some reason I prefer the flames going up the sides of the pans.

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[Swingpure]

Today the metal side plates arrived back with the angle iron welded on them. They work exactly liked I hoped. They raise the lip of the steam pan off of the cinder block to make it easier to grab and remove, The 4” wide pieces of metal will keep the flames from going up the sides of the pans.

The one thing that was not right is I guess when I cut the metal sheet in half, exact accuracy was not necessary and I guess I was a 1/4 “ off center. I did not realize that one sheet was a half inch taller than the other. The angle iron was welded on 3” from the top for both sheets, so now the pans do not sit level. It is an easy fix, I just have to cut off 1/2” off the taller side plate.

I am planning on doing a test boil this weekend.

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[Sugar Bear]

Looks good.

One additional thing I would do on your rig is cut 8" pieces of angle iron the same size as the angle iron you welded to the side walls. Two 8" pieces for each pan and sit them on top of the angle iron you welded to the sidewall at the short sides of the pans. The angle iron upsides of the 8" pieces should sit against the short sides of the pans.

This will block any draft in that area more effectively.

You can see in one of my photos of how I do that if you look at the base of the short sides of the pans.

[Swingpure]

I made changes to the evaporator as posted on another thread. Do you see any advantage in adding the third course of concrete pavers to the evaporator? In both cases, it will be easy to grab the lips of the steam pans.

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[berkshires]

I made changes to the evaporator as posted on another thread. Do you see any advantage in adding the third course of concrete pavers to the evaporator? In both cases, it will be easy to grab the lips of the steam pans.

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Depends on how high you plan to run your pans. Some folks run their pans really high, like four or five inches, because they like to just throw a ton of wood in the evaporator and walk away for a while. This is inefficient from the perspective of gallons per hour, but more efficient in terms of multi-tasking. Anyway, if you plan to run your pans really high, the extra course of concrete pavers would definitely increase your evaporation, since it would keep high level of sap in the pan from being cooled down on the side. If you plan to keep it 2" or less, then no.

Another thing to consider is a ribbon of pan gasket on top of your wide red pavers, that the pan would sit on. It would keep any fire/smoke from coming out around the sides, and you could get away with just 1 or 0 of those white pavers.

Gabe

[Swingpure]

I added a third course of pavers today. It is a pretty snug fit on the sides, metal plates stopping flames coming up the long sides and plenty of room to grab the lip.

I am pleased.i will do another water boil test in the next few days. I just have to trim some fire brick.

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[Swingpure]

Is there any value in hooking up a sap drip system to the preheat pan, on a block arch, when using steam pans, or is it best just to keep it simple by drawing it by the partial potful out of a five gallon pail?

[Sugar Bear]

In the beginning I had three steam pans and used a drip system to the first pan. I tried to get the continuous flow going with the copper pipes, but no matter what anybody tells you, that will not work or will soon fail if your pans are boiling LIKE THEY MEAN IT.

I know somebody is going to claim they can do it with the siphons but like I've said before on this gig ... my mom is from Missouri.

Six years later, My siphons are on my copper to be recycled pile, and I now use four steam pans. Pan 1 ( closest to the stack ) is my preheat pan. Rather then scoop from a five gallon pail into it, I pour much of a five gallon pail of sap or concentrate directly into it after it has been scooped close to empty ( after it was preheated and near boiling ) by moving that sap to pans 2,3 and 4.

After I fill pan 1 up to preheat I put a lid over it as it will preheat much faster. Even boil with the lid on. Another good reason to buy the lids rather then use tin foil like someone recommended in our previous thread. If not for anything else I recommend at least buying one lid for your preheat pan. The lid on your preheat pan will get you to where you want to be faster and you don't have to worry about producing "maple tin foil dumpling soup". But it's good to see I am not the only Cheap B on this forum.

Usually I have to take the lid off my preheat pan with it boiling and trying to jump ship before pans 2, 3 and 4 need more sap. When that be the case so be it ... at least I have four pans rolling.

Do yourself a big favor and make sure you have purchased at least 1 steam pan lid for preheating purposes. Forget about any drip feed and siphon tubes. I found all of that to be a waste of time and effort.

[Swingpure]

In the beginning I had three steam pans and used a drip system to the first pan. I tried to get the continuous flow going with the copper pipes, but no matter what anybody tells you, that will not work or will soon fail if your pans are boiling LIKE THEY MEAN IT.

I know somebody is going to claim they can do it with the siphons but like I've said before on this gig ... my mom is from Missouri.

Six years later, My siphons are on my copper to be recycled pile, and I now use four steam pans. Pan 1 ( closest to the stack ) is my preheat pan. Rather then scoop from a five gallon pail into it, I pour much of a five gallon pail of sap or concentrate directly into it after it has been scooped close to empty ( after it was preheated and near boiling ) by moving that sap to pans 2,3 and 4.

After I fill pan 1 up to preheat I put a lid over it as it will preheat much faster. Even boil with the lid on. Another good reason to buy the lids rather then use tin foil like someone recommended in our previous thread. If not for anything else I recommend at least buying one lid for your preheat pan. The lid on your preheat pan will get you to where you want to be faster and you don't have to worry about producing "maple tin foil dumpling soup". But it's good to see I am not the only Cheap B on this forum.

Usually I have to take the lid off my preheat pan with it boiling and trying to jump ship before pans 2, 3 and 4 need more sap. When that be the case so be it ... at least I have four pans rolling.

Do yourself a big favor and make sure you have purchased at least 1 steam pan lid for preheating purposes. Forget about any drip feed and siphon tubes. I found all of that to be a waste of time and effort.

I plan to buy five steam pan lids, likely in December to space out purchases. Besides covering the preheat pan, which is pan 5 for me, on the days when I have more sap than I can boil, And I have stopped adding wood, I want to still be heating the sap with the residual heat and eventually cover the pans for the night as you suggested on the other thread.

I will also have a 5 qt pot boiling sap for me as an additional preheat source, which should produce a gallon of boiling sap every 20 minutes.

I did a measurement of the amount of fluid in a scooped out pot. I am sure you can get more in it, but when I filled my sink 2” high and scooped a potful out of it, it measured just over 2 cups. If my 5 pan evaporator can boil 8 gallons an hour, that means 64 series of pot movements. Call it one pot a minute.

This is going to be fun!

[Swingpure]

I saw a video where they said you should get 1 to 1.5 times the square footage of your pans for gallons boiled per hour. That is likely high for a block arch, but if it was accurate, my five steam pans at 8 square feet could get 8 to 12 gallons per hour. (I am just hoping for 7-8 gallons, anything else is bonus.)

My question is as a measure, when do you start calculating gallons boiled per hour? Do you wait until all pans are boiling, or wait until the second hour after everything is warmed up and boiling, or is it the final number at the end of the day?

[berkshires]

I saw a video where they said you should get 1 to 1.5 times the square footage of your pans for gallons boiled per hour. That is likely high for a block arch, but if it was accurate, my five steam pans at 8 square feet could get 8 to 12 gallons per hour. (I am just hoping for 7-8 gallons, anything else is bonus.)

My question is as a measure, when do you start calculating gallons boiled per hour? Do you wait until all pans are boiling, or wait until the second hour after everything is warmed up and boiling, or is it the final number at the end of the day?

I'm not sure if there is an "official" method, but I consider the start to be when I light the match, and the end to be about 15 or 20 minutes after my last firing, when the boil pretty much stops.

If you get a hard rolling boil in all your pans then you should see GPH in that range. If there are pans that never reach a hard boil, subtract a lot for those.

Gabe

[Swingpure]

Do yourself a big favor and make sure you have purchased at least 1 steam pan lid for preheating purposes.

I ordered 5 steam pan lids today. They are back ordered, but should arrive for the maple season. I can see them being helpful getting all of the pans to boiling at the start of the day, getting the preheat pan to a boil after fresh sap is added and for covering the partially boiled sap in the pans overnight, all things you have mentioned.

I did shop around for a good price to make it affordable. This is a Canadian site, but the price was the best I found. https://www.foodsupplies.ca/products/smallwares/pans-and-lids/5098-full-size-steam-pan-lid-stainless-steel

[Sugar Bear]

I ordered 5 steam pan lids today. They are back ordered, but should arrive for the maple season. I can see them being helpful getting all of the pans to boiling at the start of the day, getting the preheat pan to a boil after fresh sap is added and for covering the partially boiled sap in the pans overnight, all things you have mentioned.

I did shop around for a good price to make it affordable. This is a Canadian site, but the price was the best I found. https://www.foodsupplies.ca/products/smallwares/pans-and-lids/5098-full-size-steam-pan-lid-stainless-steel

Steam pans and lids are one of the many of hundreds of millions of items that have been substantially price gouged due to COVID 19.

It would be nice if the "Supply Chain" for making/producing maple syrup were "disrupted"

I don't make much maple syrup so I would not benefit very much ( would still have about the same amount of fun ) but I think it would be really cool for all those who do make a lot of syrup.

[Sugar Bear]

Also I would recommend to all newbies considering steam pans now at $40 each would be better off spending a little more for a custom made pan rather then spending $160 on four steam pans. ( without lids )

[Swingpure]

Also I would recommend to all newbies considering steam pans now at $40 each would be better off spending a little more for a custom made pan rather then spending $160 on four steam pans. ( without lids )

I don’t disagree with you, but it is a hard choice when you are first starting off and are not sure how you will feel after the first season. I was lucky in that I only had to pay $220 Cdn for four used pans, one new pan and 5 new lids. To buy the 2x4 pan with a tap and temp gauge would be over $500, which was unthinkable when I was first starting out, with an expected 16 buckets.

We will see how this season goes with 80 taps, but if I love it and want to improve, I will go out and buy the $500 pan and wish I had from the start, but at the start, it was unthinkable.

[Swingpure]

For those with steam pans, just wondering what style of thermometer do you use to check the temperature of your final boil pan?

Do you ever leave one in the pan, or is it always spot checks?

Thanks

These are two types I am considering. The long stem one to stay in the pan and the digital one for spot checks.

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Gary

[Sugar Bear]

Your thermometer does not have to be great ... not even perfectly accurate ( I don't think there is a single one that is ) .... just ok ... and you can test it against boiling water for "reasonability". Here is why any old thermometer will do.

After about 6 years with steam pan's I quickly realized in the first year that it did not make sense to use a thermometer in the steam pans and or try to finish syrup in the steam pans.

My high steam pan only boils syrup to what is "Close" to syrup. (still a good ways off ) Then it is drawn off partially with a small pot or pored off out of the pan ( a little fresh sap goes back into the pan ASAP ) into a pot and filtered ( first filtering ) into another pot while it is not too close to syrup yet ( it filters very fast this way ). I do not bother with a thermometer up to this point. I let the visual obvious be the rule here.

I then boil the filtered syrup in a pot over gas using a thermometer for regular cross checking. When it gets to the 217 or 218 temp I begin using the syrup hydrometer until I red line it. I use a device calibrated in the great state of Vermont ( now officially known as "The know it all state" )

It then goes into large jars and gravity filters for at least two weeks. Most everything will drop to the bottom within two weeks. But as a general rule, time has been kind enough to me and I have been patient enough with it, to learn that syrup made early in the season needs less time to fully settle then syrup made later in the season.

My guess is if you try to have anything to do with finishing your syrup on steam pans you will not get the " I have never seen steam pan syrup so beautifully clear and clean in my life" from Bruce Bascom himself.

[Swingpure]

Another question for those with steam pans. I cannot tell you how excited I am for the upcoming season, even though it is 3 to 4 months away for me.

When I did a practice scoop of a small pot in two inches of water in my kitchen sink, I scooped about 2 cups of water. If you are boiling at a rate of 8 gallons an hour, that means you will need 64 partial potfuls (128 cups) of sap to keep up, per hour

Now to get to my question.

Let’s say you have four steam pans and they are all vigorously boiling at 8 gallons per hour. Pan 4 is the syrup pan. Over the course of four minutes, pan 4 will have boiled away about 2 cups of sap. To replace that 2 cups, you need to take it from pan 3. Pan 3 is also boiling the 2 cups of sap every four minutes, so you would have to put 4 cups into pan 3 to maintain it’s level, and 6 cups into pan 2, and 8 cups into pan one, per four minutes.

Does this make sense?

(Watching some you tube videos it just seem they took one scoop from one pan to another, but that did replace what was boiled)

[Swingpure]

My high steam pan only boils syrup to what is "Close" to syrup. (still a good ways off ) Then it is drawn off partially with a small pot or pored off out of the pan ( a little fresh sap goes back into the pan ASAP ) into a pot and filtered ( first filtering ) into another pot while it is not too close to syrup yet ( it filters very fast this way ). I do not bother with a thermometer up to this point. I let the visual obvious be the rule here.


My goal is to also finish it in a separate pot. Not having seen an ounce of sap boil yet, I have also not seen it being close to syrup yet. I understand about the small bubbles and the sheeting off of a spoon and the general appearance of the syrup, but for my first few times using a thermometer will help me learn what it should look like when it gets close.

Thanks for the other tips of your process. Letting it sit for two weeks in a large jar to allow for settling was not part of my plan.

[Sugar Bear]

My goal is to also finish it in a separate pot. Not having seen an ounce of sap boil yet, I have also not seen it being close to syrup yet. I understand about the small bubbles and the sheeting off of a spoon and the general appearance of the syrup, but for my first few times using a thermometer will help me learn what it should look like when it gets close.

Thanks for the other tips of your process. Letting it sit for two weeks in a large jar to allow for settling was not part of my plan.

Yes you will see the small bubbles. The key here is observing that the bubbles will be slightly slower to rise and pop, a sure sign that viscosity is setting in to the liquid. Once my syrup starts to get the slightest bit viscous I draw off for the purpose of prefiltering effectively, efficiently and timely. I suppose that takes a little time and experience to make the judgement call on. I guesstimate that I am between 80 and 90 percent of the way to syrup when I draw off my steam pans for initial filtering. But no matter what you do, you are going to have to learn much of this ... on your own ... on the fly ... as you go along.

Just try to narrow down pre season what you want to be your general approach which it seems like it is what you are doing.

Don't worry so much about precise sap movement between pans. Just do it and make sure you have the sap to do it. Watch it and don't go out shopping or on vacation while you are boiling your sap.

Don't move sap between pans with cups ... use a small pot that scoops at least 6 cups at a time. You will still have a good continuous flow effect and your sanity will be somewhat preserved and your wife will not have you dumped off at the looney bin down in Toronto.

Again ... make sure you have enough sap when you boil. I think without RO and only steam pans you will find that you are not peeling off water fast enough to keep away the threat of being committed by the wife.

Dry firewood is a must. Incomplete combustion will get you a one way ticket to the looney bin. I have been heating a couple different houses for over 20 years with wood. Every bit of it cut from the stump by me.

Again dry firewood is a must.

There is no better way to learn something ... anything then to actually doing it.

Unless you are willing to spend $800 on an entry level pressure filter with a hand pump ... gravity settling syrup is easily the best solution to filtering off sugar sand. When somebody tells you they have a better way ... ignore it or forward it to me first for review or be ready for the looney bin.

[Swingpure]

Again ... make sure you have enough sap when you boil. I think without RO and only steam pans you will find that you are not peeling off water fast enough to keep away the threat of being committed by the wife.

Dry firewood is a must.

Thank you again for the tips.

You kind of touch on one of my angsts and that is what is the minimum amount of sap you need to start boiling. With five pans and maybe a pot or two on an induction stove, how much should I have to start? This will be more likely an issue at the very start of the season, or after a pause in the sap flow.

I am thinking 40 gallons of sap to make starting up the wood fired evaporator worth while. With 80 taps, 67 on lines, it should not take much flow to get there. After that I’m planning on having up to 20 pails of sap (4 gallons each) at the ready for each boil, near the evaporator stored in snow banks.

I also cut down all the wood for my house, cut it up, haul it, split it and stack it and everything that goes into my house is 2+ years seasoned. My other angst going into the season is the wood that I cut for the evaporator has been cut down for a year, but only split since August. I plan on mixing that with some of my seasoned house wood and construction pine scraps. If I have to, I will steal more from my house supply.

You mentioned filtering the nearup as it comes off the evaporator. That was my plan as well. You called it your “first filter”. That was going to be my only filter. Do you have a second filter?

[Sugar Bear]

Thank you again for the tips.

You kind of touch on one of my angsts and that is what is the minimum amount of sap you need to start boiling. With five pans and maybe a pot or two on an induction stove, how much should I have to start? This will be more likely an issue at the very start of the season, or after a pause in the sap flow.

I am thinking 40 gallons of sap to make starting up the wood fired evaporator worth while. With 80 taps, 67 on lines, it should not take much flow to get there. After that I’m planning on having up to 20 pails of sap (4 gallons each) at the ready for each boil, near the evaporator stored in snow banks.

I also cut down all the wood for my house, cut it up, haul it, split it and stack it and everything that goes into my house is 2+ years seasoned. My other angst going into the season is the wood that I cut for the evaporator has been cut down for a year, but only split since August. I plan on mixing that with some of my seasoned house wood and construction pine scraps. If I have to, I will steal more from my house supply.

You mentioned filtering the nearup as it comes off the evaporator. That was my plan as well. You called it your “first filter”. That was going to be my only filter. Do you have a second filter?

In my six years I have never come close to prospect of running out of sap.

Many options available in the wurst case scenario of running out of sap even with a massive all of a sudden surprise with the "holy mother of everything" I am out of sap now!

1) Pull the lowest pan off. Pour it into another pan. Fill the empty pan with water or snow or anything like it that will keep the pan cool and put it back in place.

2) Do this to more pans as necessary.

3) You will find you probably will still need to use some more wood as unfortunately when we boil water does not just jump out of the pan.

I have boiled as little as 10 gallons of sap on my 3 steam pan rig.

I should also say that if you go to RO and thus will take concentrate to the flame ... be ready for things to go to syrup much sooner. About 4 times sooner. Things go much faster.

Last year was my first year with HB RO and in my first boil the high pan cooked over and I lost at least a quart of syrup over the top.

Thus far have not made the same mistake twice. But give me time.

A KEY NOTE HERE IS THAT IN A WELL HEATED AND DRAFTING BLOCK ARCH YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO PICK ANY PAN UP OFF THE RIG AT ANY TIME, DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE WITH IT AND PUT IT BACK IN PLACE WITHOUT HAVING ADVERSE EFFECT ON THE DRAFT. I SUPPOSE A LONG FLUE IS THE SECRET BEHIND THAT. THE LONGER THE BETTER I CONJECT! THE HOTTER THE FIRE THE MORE THAT DRAFT WANTS TO PERSISTS UP THE LONG FLUE EVEN WITH A PAN REMOVED OR EVEN TWO.

GLOVES, EYE PROTECTION and STEADY HANDS will likely make the back half your life more enjoyable.

Steam pan rigs have a tremendous amount of flexibility built into them. Especially when the pans side walls are up out of the flames.

My second filter is Gravity over time in a jar. It is TREMENDOUSLY effective and inexpensive.

Two weeks settle time takes less than a day nowadays.

[Swingpure]

It then goes into large jars and gravity filters for at least two weeks.
.

Does it have to go into a sealed jar like a mason jar, or can it be in a glass container with a lid to settle?

Edit: I am going to buy six, 38 oz and three 17 oz heremes clamp jars. They should provide an air tight seal, but are a lot cheaper than Mason jars. That should give me a week or more of settle time. Anything not settled by then will be character. That will be 7 days+ more of settling than I had originally planned.

I then will reheat the syrup up to 185/190° and bottle the syrup. If some of the jars have a similar grade, (taste and colour) I likely will combine them in the bottling pot.

I had actually purchased a really good 8 gallon graduated stainless steel brewery pot to hold the syrup for bottling before I learnt you have to be careful about mixing batches. It may never get used.

[berkshires]

Another question for those with steam pans. I cannot tell you how excited I am for the upcoming season, even though it is 3 to 4 months away for me.

When I did a practice scoop of a small pot in two inches of water in my kitchen sink, I scooped about 2 cups of water. If you are boiling at a rate of 8 gallons an hour, that means you will need 64 partial potfuls (128 cups) of sap to keep up, per hour

That's how many scoops have to come out of the warming pan and into the first boiling pan. But you need more scoops to get the sap where it needs to go to keep each pan level.


Now to get to my question.

Let’s say you have four steam pans and they are all vigorously boiling at 8 gallons per hour. Pan 4 is the syrup pan. Over the course of four minutes, pan 4 will have boiled away about 2 cups of sap. To replace that 2 cups, you need to take it from pan 3. Pan 3 is also boiling the 2 cups of sap every four minutes, so you would have to put 4 cups into pan 3 to maintain it’s level, and 6 cups into pan 2, and 8 cups into pan one, per four minutes.

Does this make sense?

(Watching some you tube videos it just seem they took one scoop from one pan to another, but that did replace what was boiled)

I think your math is right, but in practice, I think you just scoop a bunch from your warming tray into pan one, scoop some of that into pan 2, and some of that into pan 3, and sometimes scoop from pan 3 into pan 4. Like Sugar Bear said, all you need to do is make sure your pans keep enough in them, and your syrup pan doesn't foam over/burn. Calculating number of scoops may not do you a lot of good.

GO

[Sugar Bear]

Does it have to go into a sealed jar like a mason jar, or can it be in a glass container with a lid to settle?

Edit: I am going to buy six, 38 oz and three 17 oz heremes clamp jars. They should provide an air tight seal, but are a lot cheaper than Mason jars. That should give me a week or more of settle time. Anything not settled by then will be character. That will be 7 days+ more of settling than I had originally planned.

I then will reheat the syrup up to 185/190° and bottle the syrup. If some of the jars have a similar grade, (taste and colour) I likely will combine them in the bottling pot.

I had actually purchased a really good 8 gallon graduated stainless steel brewery pot to hold the syrup for bottling before I learnt you have to be careful about mixing batches. It may never get used.

I would say it does not have to be sealed if you are going to settle for only a couple weeks and then pour off ... reheat to 185-190 then seal in bottles. If you are going to settle for much longer then two weeks I would seal.

I find the taller the jar and the narrower the bottom of the jar the better the jar is for settling sand out. That way the sand is deeper and makes less contact with the syrup above it. With less disturbance at the syrup/sand contact line during pour off after you are done settling. Imagine for example you had your syrup settle in a steam pan and you had syrup 1" deep in the pan there would be a thin skim layer of sand across the entire layer of the bottom of the pan making a difficult/futile situation for pouring off sand free syrup. The idea here is to keep the base of the jar as narrow as possible and as tall as possible separating sand as syrup as much as possible within the jar to ease at pour off. A specifically V shaped designed tall jar might work really well. Although I think the bottom of the V should have some flat to it. I guess it would have to be a steep V as sand might settle on the sides of the V if it were not steep enough.

As for now I use 1/2 gallon Masson Jars. I think a little design modification could even work better.

Thinking of patenting a settle jar design but I'll bet Tim Perkins has beat me to it. Guy does not miss a beat on anything.

As Berkshires says ...don't count scoops or your wife will put you in the Sugar Makers Looney Bin for sure. I tried that once and my girl noticed a significant change in my behavior until I stopped that approach.

One big scoop on down the line until the pans have good levels. And on to one of the other 427 tasks that will be at hand. Especially when you have RO, boiling and sap collection all going at the same time. This year I plan to add a pump on a Reds Run.

[berkshires]

(Watching some you tube videos it just seem they took one scoop from one pan to another, but that did replace what was boiled)

In all the videos you've watched, does anyone scoop from 3 to 4, then 2 to 3, then 1 to 2? That seems like what you're planning to do, but I think everyone goes 1 to 2, 2 to 3, etc.

GO

[Swingpure]

In all the videos you've watched, does anyone scoop from 3 to 4, then 2 to 3, then 1 to 2? That seems like what you're planning to do, but I think everyone goes 1 to 2, 2 to 3, etc.

GO

Thanks for the question, but no I will be going from 1 to 2, 2 to 3, etc. I just described it that way because of the volumes required to move gets less as you go on.

The message I clearly got was do not overthink it and just keep the levels up in the pans and keep the boil going in each pan.

If pan 5, (the preheat pan) at the far stove pipe end, vigorously boils, then I will not have a pre heat pan, it will become the syrup pan and I will go pans 1 through 5. Pan 1 will receive the raw sap. I will have sap being heated on the induction stove close to the evaporator, which can produce 6 gallons of boiling sap an hour, so I will have to add some unheated sap to the mix perhaps. My boil rate is a big unknown. I hope it is 8+ gph, but it could only be 6 or 7, we will see.

[berkshires]

Thanks for the question, but no I will be going from 1 to 2, 2 to 3, etc. I just described it that way because of the volumes required to move gets less as you go on.

The message I clearly got was do not overthink it and just keep the levels up in the pans and keep the boil going in each pan.

If pan 5, (the preheat pan) at the far stove pipe end, vigorously boils, then I will not have a pre heat pan, it will become the syrup pan and I will go pans 1 through 5. Pan 1 will receive the raw sap. I will have sap being heated on the induction stove close to the evaporator, which can produce 6 gallons of boiling sap an hour, so I will have to add some unheated sap to the mix perhaps. My boil rate is a big unknown. I hope it is 8+ gph, but it could only be 6 or 7, we will see.

Sounds good. I thought I remembered you asking in an earlier post somewhere why not go 3 to 4, 2 to 3, etc. So I thought that's what you were planning to do.

I'll be curious to see how you wind up using your induction stove in the mix. If pan 5 does indeed come to a full boil, might make sense to use the induction burner/pot as a preheater. Then you'd keep adding cold sap to that, and scooping warm sap from it into pan 1. If that's the case, I definitely see you getting upwards of 8 GPH.

Good luck!

GO

[DRoseum]

Not sure you pan order/numbering, but you want to transfer out of a pan before transferring into it. Otherwise you are adding lower density sap to it before transferring to the next pan and losing the value of creating the "gradient" from pan to pan.

[Swingpure]

Not sure you pan order/numbering, but you want to transfer out of a pan before transferring into it. Otherwise you are adding lower density sap to it before transferring to the next pan and losing the value of creating the "gradient" from pan to pan.

Thanks that is what made sense to me for the reasons you mentioned. I saw people on You Tube not doing that and I wondered why.

For my first time, I may run the sap in the pans a little high, until I get the routine down, which I’m think will happen in the first hour.

I do have an appreciation that boiling and finishing the sap into good syrup is a skill and an art, which take experience and practice. My only remotely similar experience is making fudge and you have to hit the soft ball stage dead on. Take it off the heat too early and it will not set and too late, the fudge is more granular.

The dual range induction range will be in what I call the phone booth shed (I name all of my sheds) and it will be right beside the evaporator which will be in the sugar shed. I have two 5 quart pots that take about 20 mins to get water to a boil. I am also debating replacing one of the smaller pot with a 16 qt pot and actually boil with it for several hours, although my fear is that something could go on and I will not be closely watching it like the other pans.

I did buy the dial thermometer with the 12” probe to help me learn what the sap/syrup looks like as it gets close. My plan is to leave the probe in the pan as it gets remotely close, sort of acting like a built in probe.

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[Sugar Bear]

For those with steam pans, just wondering what style of thermometer do you use to check the temperature of your final boil pan?

Do you ever leave one in the pan, or is it always spot checks?

Thanks

These are two types I am considering. The long stem one to stay in the pan and the digital one for spot checks.

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Gary


While I use a thermometer, temperature checking of syrup is highly over rated. Here is why.

It is only used as tool to check to see when you are getting close to 66 brix. Once you have done it a couple dozen times your eyes and brain will tell you when you are getting close to that.
But they can never really tell you when you are at or going over 66 brix. Unless your from Vermont ( Originally ) and are super good.

I just use my thermometer ( anyway ) for spot checks to see when I am up around the 219 mark. Then I begin using the hydrometer and pay no attention to temperature of syrup in the finish pan ( what good is it to me after that ) . Although I sometimes use it to check the temp of the syrup inside my hydrometer tube. I think the Red Line hot test temp for syrup in the tube is 211 (forget but it should say on it ) . Don't want to be off of that by more then a degree or two when you lower ( slowly ) the hydrometer into the tube.

So with that said I would say the most important temp check of all is the one of the syrup inside the hydrometer tube at 211 degrees. Sometimes I spot check that but don't anymore as I have figured out how to get that spot on 211.

Here is how and what I have noticed about the hydrometer tube over the past few years.

When I pour 219 degree syrup into the hydrometer tube and prior to pouring it, the tube was stored at a room temperature of 40 degrees, the temp of the syrup would be around 200 degrees or less immediately. No good for accurate testing of the syrup with the 211 hot test line. The cold metal cools down the syrup quickly.

When I pour 219 degree syrup into the hydrometer tube and prior to pouring it, the tube was stored at a room temperature of 70 degrees, the temp of the syrup would be around 213 degrees or less immediately. Good for accurate testing of the syrup with the 211 line. The hydrometer itself if stored at around 70 degrees will cool the syrup another 2 degrees to the 211 marke. Perfect test.

When I pour 219 degree syrup into the hydrometer tube and prior to pouring it, the tube was pre dipped in 219 degree boiling syrup to heat the tube up, the temp of the syrup would be around 215/16 degrees or less immediately. A bit high for accurate testing of the syrup with 211 line. Need a bit of time to cool three or four degrees.

I think some people will say that 215/16 should test the same as 211 on the hydrometer. My findings do not agree with that. Time and time again. It wants to float a tad lower.

It also makes sense to store and use both the hyrdrometer and the tube as close to a 70 degree room temperature as possible. That places 219 degree syrup coming into the tube as close to the 211 mark as possible for accurate testing on the 211 line.

I consider being without a good thermometer in maple syrup making like being blind in one eye. Could still do it.

I consider being without a good syrup hydrometer in maple syrup making like being blind in both eyes. OUCH NOT HAPPENING!

That reminds be ... bought a back up sap hydrometer this year ... gotta get a backup syrup hydrometer. Hopefully nobody is hoarding them.

Anything that can be broken will be broken ... at least once.

[Swingpure]

I consider being without a good syrup hydrometer in maple syrup making like being blind in both eyes.

I have a hydrotherm and a refractometer to nail down my Brix. For the hydrotherm, I am shooting for the red “mercury” line, to be five black lines above the syrup. My goal is for 66.9 to 67 Brix syrup. The refractometer should help verify the reading.

I am going to be finishing the syrup on the dual induction range. On the second element, I plan to have a pot of boiling water that I will keep the cup in (the top of which will be well above the top of the water) and the hydrotherm inside the cup, so both will be close to syrup temperature.

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[Sugar Bear]

I have a hydrotherm and a refractometer to nail down my Brix. For the hydrotherm, I am shooting for the red “mercury” line, to be five black lines above the syrup. My goal is for 66.9 to 67 Brix syrup. The refractometer should help verify the reading.

I am going to be finishing the syrup on the dual induction range. On the second element, I plan to have a pot of boiling water that I will keep the cup in (the top of which will be well above the top of the water) and the hydrotherm inside the cup, so both will be close to syrup temperature.

22602

Outstanding. I am impressed at how you are leaving no stone unturned.

Yes ... it was tricky for me to learn a technique for getting my test syrup at 211 for an accurate test.

By the way. Not sure how your ventilation works but I do most of my finishing outside over propane and then do my last 5 minutes inside such that I limit water in the house.

You can blow apart certain types of glue ups ( doors and tables ) with too much water in the winter time.

[Swingpure]

By the way. Not sure how your ventilation works but I do most of my finishing outside over propane and then do my last 5 minutes inside such that I limit water in the house.



Not sure if it is right or wrong, but I hope to collect my sap during the last hour or so of daylight and will store it in 5 gallon pails in snowbanks near the evaporator. I will also have a 58 gallon barrel nearby as well if required.

This will allow me to start boiling right away in the morning and hopefully finish around 3 pm. If the weather allows I will finish the syrup on the dual range in the phone booth shed, outdoors. If I can’t do it there, I will move into the garage and leave either the man door or garage main door open. I also have a ceiling fan in the garage. The garage has plywood walls and drywall ceiling.

If that starts making a mess of the garage, I also have a shelterlogic shed that I can finish in.

The picture is of the phone booth shed with the induction range and the two five quart pots on it, taken back in October.

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[Wannabe]

Lots of backyarders go 'past' syrup when boiling, and then add sap or distilled water when finishing elsewhere. Saves a lot of propane/electric/time.

[Swingpure]

Lots of backyarders go 'past' syrup when boiling, and then add sap or distilled water when finishing elsewhere. Saves a lot of propane/electric/time.

That’s interesting, because it sort of frees you up to get close and if you just miss it, you can add the sap or water as you say.

I know SugarBear likes to filter it before it the sap gets too thick, but I likely will filter it after finishing it. This will allow me to take the syrup out of the final pan into my finishing pot and then while it is still hot, finish it and then pour it into my settling jars.

My 12” probe thermometer arrived today. I tested it right away, measuring the temperature of boiling water (210.58°), and it was within .5 of a degree. That will help me learn what syrup looks like when it gets close.

Just waiting for my steam pan lids to be restocked, which they thought should be any day now.

[wobbletop]

I find it hard to finish on the evaporator with steam pans. It tends to really start foaming as it gets close.

The boiling point of water varies with altitude and baro pressure. I use the "sap tap app" to help determine what the boiling point of water is on the day.

[Swingpure]

I find it hard to finish on the evaporator with steam pans. It tends to really start foaming as it gets close.

The boiling point of water varies with altitude and baro pressure. I use the "sap tap app" to help determine what the boiling point of water is on the day.


Thanks, I did get the 210.58° boiling temp from the SapTapApp. It is a great App and I plan to use it a lot this up coming sap season.

I hope to get it close on the steam pan and finish it off on the induction range. Likely on my first few tries it will be a distant close. One of the reasons why it went with a lot of taps my first year besides that I am crazy, it will give me several boiling opportunities and hopefully I will learn more.

Edit: The SapTap App will drive me nuts though as I see the sap running in locations south of me in the flow maps, a month ahead of here. Lol

[Swingpure]

Supply chain issues have affected my steam pan lids arrival. I was supposed to have them by now, but they are further delayed to January. That is okay because I won’t need them until late February or March, but it will be lousy if they have not arrived until then.

[Swingpure]

My first two steam pan lids arrived today, 2 more will arrive Friday and the fifth next week. Supply chain issues affected the delivery of the pans. I was only able to get two at the inexpensive price ($15 Cdn) and the other three at full price ($31Cdn). (Lids were originally ordered on November 17)

I will use them at start up, when I need to keep ash out of the pans, and to protect any boiled concentrate still left in the pans.Just how it will all work will be discovered with time and experience.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/04fGGtBAaK-9R7jHRQZF55rWA

[BrierPatch]

Aluminum foil works really well for covering up/sealing up pans for keeping overnight concentrate. Just in case your other lids don't make it in time.

[Swingpure]

Two more steam pan lids arrived yesterday. The fifth and final one should arrive Monday.

The $15 lids are identical to the $31/$36 lids. All fit well over the full sized steam pans.

[Swingpure]

Then there were five! The fifth steam pan lid finally arrived after ordering them originally on November 17th. Winter is really hanging on here, so I may not get to use them for two to three weeks.


https://share.icloud.com/photos/0f0n4107y8X-tppLWeHVdrqJg

[Swingpure]

For those using steam pans on your evaporator, do you clean your steam pans after every boil?

[wilfredjr]

No, but I should have. No time on small pans with the fire going. Just scrubbed with snow between batches, which works inside, but the woodsmoke tar really did a number on the bottoms. Season-end scrubbing gets really bad.

They were trashed after 10 years, and sit in a nice little pile waiting for a miracle. I switched to propane and an 8 gallon brew kettle to get out of the weather. Don't miss the pans slipping off the blocks spillage, nor pouring off the hot syrup amidst the flying ash ;)