Bubbler system—- needs to know

[Bruce L]

Have a bubbler system on order,should be in this fall. Couple of questions come to mind. When do you turn on and turn off the system,do you boil as hard or back off,what do you do during freeze ups,,what about clean up when the pan is flooded with cleaning solution,and anything else that comes to mind? Thanks in advance

[johnallin]

Bruce, I put an H20 Air Injection System in last year... so far it has worked without issue. I'll try to fill in with what I've learned, but am sure there are others with more experience.

I turn it on when I start the fire. I do not turn off until pans have cooled down some after I stop firing.
That I learned from Russ at Red Roof Maples, an authority on bubblers with his Bubble Master.
Said that if turned off too soon, the nitre will have a chance to settle onto the bottom of the pan - just what you're trying to avoid.

Because I believe it may cool the sap a bit; I fired just as hard as I could and had about the same gph as in previous years.

Clean up is easy as the syrup pan injector connects to the main air supply pipe with sanitary tri-clamp fittings. Just undo clamps and lift out, couldn't be any simpler. I did not keep it in the pan if I used a cleaner.

I have injectors in both front and back pans with a stainless manifold made up with butterfly valves to throttle back as needed between the two. I found the front pan doesn't need all that much and if run wide open had syrup slashing all over the place. I run the flue pan with more air, but it's a bit of a pain at season end as, there too, it splashed hot sap all over the inside of the hood...

All of the syrup made was much lighter than any previous year. As an experiment, I did not use on my last boil and we made darker that the previous day.

If anything- and I may be wrong - I think the injection Did affect taste to a small degree, as our syrup didn't seem to be as sweet as in past years.

It's loud - no it's really loud. I put the air blower out behind the sugar house, with intake facing down and covered the blower with a hood to keep rain etc out. Set up like that, I figured the air intake would be much cleaner.
The blower came with 2, or 3 (not sure) charcoal filters.
Good luck with yours, I may also be playing with air injection into my sap this year.

John

[Russell Lampron]

Have a bubbler system on order,should be in this fall. Couple of questions come to mind. When do you turn on and turn off the system,do you boil as hard or back off,what do you do during freeze ups,,what about clean up when the pan is flooded with cleaning solution,and anything else that comes to mind? Thanks in advance

I light the fire in the evaporator and turn on the blower. Right after that I turn on the bubbler. I don't turn the bubbler off until the fire is out which keeps the nitre from settling to the bottom of the flues and burning. I boil as hard as I can without turning my stack purple. I don't do anything different during freeze ups. I've never removed the bubbler from the flue pan even when cleaning with vinegar.

I think that the flavor of my syrup has improved with the bubbler and follows the color of the syrup. I have also noticed an increase in evaporation rate. I think that you're going to like the bubbler especially if you're trying to make golden syrup. With my set up I can make mostly golden by keeping the concentration percentage at 10% to 12%. After a couple of boils at 20% I can make dark.

[DrTimPerkins]

As John says, put the blower FAR away from where you are working. Those things can be really LOUD. In addition, keep the air inlet away from any sources of fumes...whether from vehicles (car/truck/tractor exhaust), fuel tank vents, or animals. None of those make for good tasting syrup.

We found (through very careful measurement) that air injection has no effect on the amount of niter that needs to be filtered out (sugar sand particles) or the thickness of niter forming on the pans (scale) except directly around the air injection pipes, although because you are making really light syrup, you also make really light-colored niter, so it LOOKS like you have less niter.

Air injection has the largest effect on color (makes much lighter syrup), relatively little effect on flavor, or niter, or sugar sand. It can reduce defoamer use in some instances.

Your mileage may vary depending on the specific equipment and how it is operated.

More information at https://mapleresearch.org/search/?_sf_s=air%20injection

[johnallin]

.....More information at https://mapleresearch.org/search/?_sf_s=air%20injection

Thank you for that link Dr Tim. If I understood it correctly, Mr. Vernon states that his air is injected - at the top of the flue - and not the bottom.
That is just the opposite of way mine, and most?, set ups are built, but it kind of makes sense.

In his design, air is being forced down into the sap/syrup and then rising back to the top as opposed to just rising up from the bottom,
It makes sense that more is better - Any thoughts on that? Thanks.

Edit: I have air injection in both pans and just realized that the syrup pan is too shallow to bubble from the top.

[DrTimPerkins]

I can't speak to the design of his rig, but you are correct that most air injection units (for evaporators) lay near the bottom of the pans (flue or syrup pans).

Make sure you have some way of regulating the air flow...too much is not good, too little is also not good.

One of the criticisms we get of this research is that we found no difference in the amount of niter build-up (scale) in the pans. Many other people will say that air injection results in less niter. All I can say is that we actually measured it really carefully in dozens of places throughout the evaporators with and without air injection using an ultrasonic coating thickness gauge. We found NO difference. Similarly, we filtered every drop of sap coming from both evaporators and weighed the niter (sugar sand) coming out. Again, NO difference. The very clear difference was in niter (both scale and sugar sand) color. In the air injected evaporator the niter was very light (almost white), while in the regular evaporator it was dark...reflective of the syrup color. This made the scale APPEAR thicker on the non-air injected evaporator, but it was, in fact, not. We actually thought it was thicker until we actually measured it. Your mileage may vary.

[johnallin]

...Make sure you have some way of regulating the air flow...too much is not good, too little is also not good.

Can you define what is too much - too little? I can regulate air from bubbles blasting syrup up to the rafters - to fully closed - or rolling like a lava lamp..but am still experimenting.

Wondering what worked best at Proctor.......

[Russell Lampron]

Can you define what is too much - too little? I can regulate air from bubbles blasting syrup up to the rafters - to fully closed - or rolling like a lava lamp..but am still experimenting.

Wondering what worked best at Proctor.......

I regulate mine so that the near syrup doesn't splash all over the place with a nice boil in the front pan. I regulate the flue pan so that the sap doesn't bubble much in the float box. At those settings there isn't very much splashing going on and I don't use much defoamer.

[DrTimPerkins]

I regulate mine so that the near syrup doesn't splash all over the place with a nice boil in the front pan. I regulate the flue pan so that the sap doesn't bubble much in the float box. At those settings there isn't very much splashing going on and I don't use much defoamer.

Sounds right. Add a lot of air, but keep the liquid in the pan.

[Bruce L]

I regulate mine so that the near syrup doesn't splash all over the place with a nice boil in the front pan. I regulate the flue pan so that the sap doesn't bubble much in the float box. At those settings there isn't very much splashing going on and I don't use much defoamer.
Can there be too much air in the flue pan? Before I had the steam away on the boils would jump right out of the flue pan periodically,now with steam away on boils can’t jump out,but are certainly spitting sap all over the place

[Russell Lampron]

Can there be too much air in the flue pan? Before I had the steam away on the boils would jump right out of the flue pan periodically,now with steam away on boils can’t jump out,but are certainly spitting sap all over the place

Yes there can be too much air in the flue pan. If I have too much air going through mine the sap will be splashed into the hood and then run down into the drip channels and out. The way that the float box on my flue pan is designed the turbulence from too much air makes the float bounce around and the sap level in the pan hard to regulate. That turbulence also makes sap splash out of the float box and burn onto the side of the arch.

[johnallin]

Russ, Do you know what size the outlet holes are on your "Bubble Master"?

On the H20 Air Injector they're maybe 1/16" and I'm beginning to think that may be too small, as it doesn't take much air volume before it's acting like a water-jet.
Never gave that a thought until this thread started. It seems that more air is better, but there's a world of difference between what 1/16" and 1/8" can deliver.

BTW - Thanks for all of the info you've posted over the years on your Bubble Master...it inspired me to an air injection system.

[Russell Lampron]

Russ, Do you know what size the outlet holes are on your "Bubble Master"?

On the H20 Air Injector they're maybe 1/16" and I'm beginning to think that may be too small, as it doesn't take much air volume before it's acting like a water-jet.
Never gave that a thought until this thread started. It seems that more air is better, but there's a world of difference between what 1/16" and 1/8" can deliver.

BTW - Thanks for all of the info you've posted over the years on your Bubble Master...it inspired me to an air injection system.

My holes are 1/16" too and they're spaced 1" apart. I copied a bubbler that they had at Bascom's when I made mine.

[johnallin]

I need to check, but pretty sure mine are 2 to 3" apart. Thanks

[Bruce L]

Once you get the air flow set does it need adjustment for later season Syrup that boils totally different?

[Russell Lampron]

Once you get the air flow set does it need adjustment for later season Syrup that boils totally different?

No, once you get it fine tuned you leave it where it's set. Later in the season you'll need to use more defoamer but that's it.

[Bruce L]

Got my bubbler system from H2O delivered tonight,but there are no tubes for the syrup pan,just the flue pan. Shouldn’t the system be in both pans?

[johnallin]

Bruce,
Mine is made for both flue and syrup pans, but after a season, not really convinced that I need the syrup pan tubes.

[Russell Lampron]

Got my bubbler system from H2O delivered tonight,but there are no tubes for the syrup pan,just the flue pan. Shouldn’t the system be in both pans?

Maybe you have to order the ones for the syrup pan(s) separately. They would need to be made for the different pan configurations and sizes. You don't really need them in the syrup pan(s), they are most beneficial in the flue pan.

When I made mine I made one for the syrup pan and it really helps keep the foam knocked down. I don't use very much defoamer anymore and it does keep the nitre suspended too.