Numbers from USDA including breakdown of most states

[Ultimatetreehugger]

https://www.wcax.com/content/news/US-Maple-Syrup-Production-up-Despite-Shorter-Season-511379931.html

[fred]

Sure Vermont produced 2/3 of the us crop. GIVE ME A BREAK. How can they even print that in good conscience?

Ohio made more than 300,000 gallons. The 4 biggest bulk buyers in Ohio bought over 100,000 gallons alone. plus EVERY producer in Ohio has an excellent outlet for retail with 12 million people living in the state. New York PA and michigan are no different.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

fred,
Those statistics are presented in good conscience because those are the numbers that NASS has to work with. Many, if not most, sugar makers do not bother to report their production. As a result USDA under estimates the size and economic importance of our industry.

[motowbrowne]

I've gotten a USDA census every year for maple syrup and then this year I didn't get one. Didn't even realize I hadn't seen one until mid May. Don't know why they took me off the list. I send them back every year.

[BAP]

So Ohio went from 90,000 gallons in the 2018 USDA report to 300,000 this year but didn’t report it to the USDA? That’s one whale of an increase.

[maple flats]

I also didn't get one. I heard they were just taking a sample and prorating from that. Seems like a faulty way to do it, especially if the pick the wrong ones to poll.

[fred]

So Ohio went from 90,000 gallons in the 2018 USDA report to 300,000 this year but didn’t report it to the USDA? That’s one whale of an increase.


like i said the 4 biggest buyers in ohio have been buying over 100,000 gallons a year for the 30 years ive made syrup. ohio used to be recorded for being the most productive in the US . now its just not registered.

[DrTimPerkins]

There is no question that the NASS numbers are not perfect. Don't blame NASS -- they rely on people to voluntarily report. They use standard statistical approaches to estimate the actual numbers from the samples they do receive. That is not optimal, but since reporting is not mandatory, there isn't much they can do than ask, beg, and cajole people into sending them numbers. We know of at least one county in Vermont where a large operation expanded by 80,000 taps within the past few years, but the entire county has less than that reported. Eventually the numbers will get corrected.

I have been to at least 3 years of January Ohio Maple Days meetings over the past few decades. At ALL of them, I have heard Dr. Gary Graham implore those in attendance to report their numbers to NASS, because it was felt that Ohio numbers reported by NASS were far below the actual values. That message seems to have fallen on deaf ears. The result is that NASS has now proposed to drop Ohio (and other states) from their maple reporting altogether. Don't blame NASS. Don't blame OSU Extension. They did all they could do. Not enough people choose to cooperate or badger their neighbors into reporting.

Some may say "so what?" The answer to that comes down to $. If the government doesn't see a viable agricultural industry, they aren't going to fund things like ag marketing for maple, or regulatory/advisory services in those states. The Universities/Colleges in those areas are going to say "Why do maple...we don't have that industry here" and instead will choose to focus on other things to put their resources into. Energy efficiency programs will stop helping maple producers update to more energy efficient ROs and other equipment. So over a few decades, that few minutes of work you (and others in the maple industry) "voluntarily" chose not to do each year ends up costing you and your neighbors who make syrup tens of millions of $ in support. Basically....if you're not counted, you don't exist, and you don't get funding or resources because you're just not big enough to matter to the bean-counters and decision-makers.

[fred]

I agree Tim , its a struggle especially with the Amish

[fred]

on a side note ive been in the syrup business (demos,seminars, syrup and equiptment) for 30+ years and was only surveyed twice. so Im partial to say they skew their own numbers too.

[maple flats]

I don't recall how many years ago I got my first NASS report to file, but it was over 10 years ago, maybe even 15 yrs. I sent back the report each time, this year I did not get one to file.
Another point, in the past I've encouraged every producer to file their report, it seems a majority refused because they were afraid the info would come back to bite them (my feeling is they didn't report the sales)
This type of information is hard to get farmers to report because they don't trust the laws that force the info to just be used for statistics. For this reason I question how accurate any of this info can be, how can those who compile the info collected and "correct" it to get a final report.

[johnallin]

Oh the infamous 9 words that will strike fear in the hearts of men...

"We're from the government and we're here to help."

I am often asked to fill out government survey's and labor reports....they get filed in the round file next to my chair.

Wonder why the NASS report can't be anonymous, with county and state only. (maybe it is?)

[DrTimPerkins]

Oh the infamous 9 words that will strike fear in the hearts of men...

"We're from the government and we're here to help."

Yup...people are afraid of this right up until the time they NEED help, and then they find they can't get it, because, technically, you don't exist (because you haven't reported).

An example of the connection between reporting and $. This doesn't involve NASS, but same idea.

Back in the Jan 1998 ice storm a huge number of maple producers were affected across a wide swath of the northeast (Quebec and Ontario were very badly hit). The Vermont Dept of Forests, Parks & Recreation did an absolutely wonderful detailed map of damage, with stand maps and classes of damage delineated very precisely across the entire state. Other surrounding states....not so much. They basically just took a wide marker and colored in half the state, a good deal of that was "scattered" or "light". https://www.fs.fed.us/nrs/pubs/jrnl/1999/ne_1999_miller-weeks_001.pdf

So we're thinking...great, at least in VT we have really good and useful info. We thought that right up until it came time to dole out the $ for research and damage clean-up. The U.S. Federal Government divvied up the money by acreage affected. So our great detailed VT damage map totaled a fairly small area compared to surrounding states, and we got less research and recover $ because of it. It would have been better in some ways if they'd used a wide-tip marker or crayon.

[johnallin]

Yup...people are afraid of this right up until the time they NEED help, and then they find they can't get it, because, technically, you don't exist (because you haven't reported).

An example of the connection between reporting and $. This doesn't involve NASS, but same idea.

Back in the Jan 1998 ice storm a huge number of maple producers were affected across a wide swath of the northeast (Quebec and Ontario were very badly hit). The Vermont Dept of Forests, Parks & Recreation did an absolutely wonderful detailed map of damage, with stand maps and classes of damage delineated very precisely across the entire state. Other surrounding states....not so much. They basically just took a wide marker and colored in half the state, a good deal of that was "scattered" or "light". https://www.fs.fed.us/nrs/pubs/jrnl/1999/ne_1999_miller-weeks_001.pdf

So we're thinking...great, at least in VT we have really good and useful info. We thought that right up until it came time to dole out the $ for research and damage clean-up. The U.S. Federal Government divvied up the money by acreage affected. So our great detailed VT damage map totaled a fairly small area compared to surrounding states, and we got less research and recover $ because of it. It would have been better in some ways if they'd used a wide-tip marker or crayon.

That's a great example of how poorly the Federal Government qualifies the information it receives at times.

Although he doesn't like Leader Clear Presses ;) I can see Fred's frustration....

[DrTimPerkins]

Although he doesn't like Leader Clear Presses ;) I can see Fred's frustration....

I think we're all a bit frustrated by it, however it is the best we have (even knowing there are some problems with it). It will require a little more effort and cooperation from producers for it to improve.

[fred]

In part due to the ohio nass elimination, osu is putting together a survey distributed to all 88 counties. It will be anonymous,independent and detailed. It will include timber, forest, maple and other(mushroom and root) income. I think this is a huge step towards accuracy and statewide help to the producer/landowner. They have also stepped back into the research and developement of natural resources big time in conjuction with the other nationally known entities

[buckeye gold]

As a retired Government employee from a Natural resource field I can tell you two things were almost always true......you were never trusted and seldom believed. This was due mainly to what people experience from politicians who most often are working to get reelected and to push their own agenda. There are some who genuinely want to serve the people, but they get fewer all the time. Special interest throw so much money into campaign funds they dictate much of what is addressed by legislation. One way to beat the system is to work it from inside. The NRA is a glowing example.....why do you think you still have a firearm in your house and are free to use it? Because, the NRA saw a long time ago how the game was played and entrenched themselves in Washington. Many politicians now know their paychecks can be torn from their hands by one bad endorsement from the NRA. Sad to say we are loosing this battle too, because Americans choose to withdraw instead of engage. When I worked for a state agency we genuinely wanted to help our constituents, but people often wanted only their own agendas addressed....we addressed what was good for the whole and not the individual. The people taking the surveys are not big brother, they are agency personnel trying to manage a resource and help. They are people just like you and I. If you are worried they will tell the IRS then it's your problem for not reporting income. Oh by the way, they don't trust the IRS either. I report everything including my income and I complete the surveys. If big brother wants you he'll find you from your cell phone not a maple survey.

[DrTimPerkins]

There are some who genuinely want to serve the people, ...

In my experience, this is true of all the USDA NASS folks I've worked with over the past couple of decades. They will generally come to maple meetings if asked, and explain what they do and their methods, interpret the results, and will answer any questions you have. We've been extremely fortunate to have some very fine USDA NASS folks in the northeast office. I would imagine it is very frustrating for them (in my opinion) that many in the maple industry do not like to submit their data, but then complain the data is not reflective of the real situation.