Purchasing woods

[Ultimatetreehugger]

What would someone pay for 200 acres, 6000 taps all to one collection point. Easy power and lots of roadside access. There are no buildings on the property. Is there a max dollar per tap you look for before you say pass? On 6000 taps, what purchase price makes sense before it's not profitable? Thanks.

[mol1jb]

Im sure location will play some part in price. Im watching this thread with interest as I hope to have a part time maple farm in the future.

[maple flats]

That is an average of 30 taps per acre. If the maples are close to evenly dispersed that will cost more to tube than typical. If almost half of the 200 acres has the bulk of the maples, without being only maples it will be better.
Having all the sap flow to the sugarhouse is a huge plus.

[maple flats]

Before you buy, develope a good plan on how to sell the syrup. If it is heavy in bulk syrup it is far harder to make a profit, if you can retail most or almost all, in syrup and value added products you can do far better. Just be realistic, will you mostly retail or not?

[JoeJ]

From what I have seen in real estate sales involving timberland that has sugar woods potential, the sale prices are generally between $1,900. and $2,200. per acre unless you are looking at 500 acres or more. There is always the odd sale where someone is able to make a great deal and might purchase sugar woods for $1,000. per acre, but those sales are few and far between.

Joe

[Stanbridge]

I like to look at it by price per tap. It seems that if you're paying more that 25-30$ per tap for raw land, the numbers won't add up at the end. If your 6000 taps are on a 100-acre stand and the other 100 acres are mixed or softwoods, you're buying into "unproductive" land for a sugarer. Price would have to be quite low, or the timber real nice in the non-sugar woods.

If your 6000 taps are spread out on the 200 acres, I'd look for something else.

[Maplewalnut]

I agree with Maple Flats...30 taps per acre seems a little low density wise. I am assuming you are looking in VT but just for comparison that type of parcel in PA would go for probably $4000-5000 an acre. Recognize tree composition is different in VT vs PA in figuring timber value

[Ultimatetreehugger]

Thanks for your replies. I haven't walked the woods to know density. There is 40 acres of open land that I would plant Christmas trees on (I currently have 80,000 Christmas trees) Thanks for replies, this is helpful.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

The bush we work in has 5400 taps on 70 acres and I don’t consider it overcrowded. There’s a few gaps here and there but generally an even distribution over the 70 acres.

[n8hutch]

Where in Vermont are you looking? ,if it's in the North East kingdom I would have LandVest do A Timber cruise, they have an office in Colebrook NH, and one of their Foresters has A sugar woods in Bloomfield or Limington vt, they can tell you what the value is of the Standing Timber and how Many Taps you have, 30 Taps to an Acre is not a 2000.00 dollar Per Acre woods, if it's a young stand because it was cut in the last 10 years I think somewhere in the 1000.00 to 1200 per acre range would be reasonable.

I would not personally look at buying that much real estate without a Timber Cruise. Yes it might cost 3-500 dollars but could save you from making a 100,000.00 dollar mistake.

[TapTapTap]

I think the market price of raw land with hardwood stands is way too high to support a sugaring business. Even with neglecting the cost of land it is challenging to be profitable. Actually, you need to neglect your labor costs too.

[Michael Greer]

Gosh that's a question with too many variables. The biggest factor would be where you are; 200 acres is worth way more in one area than another. Secondly, you have to recognize that sellers are motivated by entirely different ideas. One fellow may recognize the value of a real sugar bush, while another just sees trees. A third may envision a hillside of upscale vacation homes and the boat he's gonna buy with the big bucks. Around here in northern New York large wooded tracts get bought up, clearcut and chipped, and sold off to the next fool. It has far less to do with your plans than those of the seller.

[Ed R]

This really is location dependent. In the fall of 2017 I purchased 77 acres in the UP of Michigan next to the 70 I already owned. There are just under 2500 taps on that 77 acres grouped on just under 40 acres due to a pond, open fields and a popple stand being on the balance of the property. One of the 20 acre sections could come to straight to my planned sugar house the other 20 would have to probably go to a woods tank. I will receive approximately $12,000 from thinning activities and the popple cut (to be completed this fall). I paid $66,000 for the property. If this property was on the south side of the bridge it would cost at least 3x more, just as rec land without the timber value. There are still some places where land prices are still relatively low and bulk syrup produced on cheaper land still pays the same as that produced on 3-4 thousand dollar an acre land. I have not made a drop of syrup yet on the up property but the woods are there so when I retire and reverse snowbird migrate I can make all the syrup my older body can get thru the snow and deal with. Until then I can still enjoy heading up 7-8 times a year fishing, hunting and in a week or two hopefully picking some morels and getting bit to heck by blackflies.