Thoughts on a hobby size RO

[VTnewguy]

So we have quickly reached the point where our hobby needs a RO or a bigger evaporator. I don't really want to go with a bigger evaporator. The ROs I'm looking at are the Leader micRO 2, CDL 250, or possibly a NGMP 180. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with these? The price on the Leader is good but the CDL might be a bit more capable long term. Any thoughts?

[VTnewguy]

Anybody? Thoughts?

[maple flats]

My thoughts lean to doing some planning first. The first question is, how many taps do you envision next season? How about in 5 years?
Then build towards your 5 year. I see you are at about 400 taps now on a 2x6. If you only see 500 taps next year any of those RO's will work, if you see 1000+ in 5 years, you want a better RO. 1st the NGMP RO is good but it has limitations on how much water it can remove. However a 180 NGMP next year would do fine on 500 taps but not on 1000 taps. In fact it would surely help even on 600 taps but it would be slower than you really want.
A 2x6 can do a lot of taps but you need an RO that can get the concentrate to a higher sugar %.
I deal with this issue myself. I have a Deer Run 250 RO, it works fine but has it's limitations. It will only take 2% sap to 7.5-8% concentrate in one pass, depending on the sap temperature. I then recirculate from my head tank and regularly get to 10-12% and sometimes even 15% but my RO can not do that high in one pass and while I can remove about 3 gpm permeate in the first pass if the sap is at 37-38 F it will only remove about 2.6 gpm if the sap is at 34 F.
The better RO's will get you there much faster, but for a much bigger investment.
Which ever RO you decide on be planning with the 3-5 yr out in mind. That said, a NGMP for next year and then a bigger one a year or 2 after can be a good plan too, a used RO in good shape can command a good price, sometimes close to what you have in it or for that matter the Micro or the CDL too, any will get good money back when resold if in good condition.

[VTnewguy]

Ty Dave, your insights are right on. A feature I really like on CDL is the ability to drain it as we don't have a heated space. Probably will add on to sugarhouse in some shape to keep everything insulated. Now I just need to pony up the bucks.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

We’ll be looking at a drainable hobby RO in the next couple years. There are a lot of used ones out there as people are continually upgrading. I’m planning to go that route.

[mol1jb]

Last year when I was looking for a RO I was also thinking used. However I found Deer Run Maple RO and I am glad I did. Ray makes his units with similar flow rates as the name brands but at a much better price. I would add that to your list.

[VTnewguy]

Last year when I was looking for a RO I was also thinking used. However I found Deer Run Maple RO and I am glad I did. Ray makes his units with similar flow rates as the name brands but at a much better price. I would add that to your list.
Thanks, I'll take a look at it. Did you get a model with the motor with it?

[Russell Lampron]

Of course I don't know how much you can spend or how much you want to spend. You are on the right track thinking RO not bigger evaporator. If you want to make the purchase once go with a professional RO, not a hobby RO. Professional RO's like the Lapierre Turbo's and CDL's can be run at higher pressures without blowing end caps off of the pressure vessels. The recirculation systems on them keep the membranes cleaner and maintain flows for much longer periods of time,something that's important when you've got a lot of sap and very little time. With my Lapierre Turbo RO I can sweeten to 13% in a single pass and over 20% on the second pass. I have 725 taps on vacuum and a 2x6 evaporator and my 250 RO is the perfect size. If I was going to do 1,000 or more taps I would want a bigger RO to be able to keep up.

[VTnewguy]

Of course I don't know how much you can spend or how much you want to spend. You are on the right track thinking RO not bigger evaporator. If you want to make the purchase once go with a professional RO, not a hobby RO. Professional RO's like the Lapierre Turbo's and CDL's can be run at higher pressures without blowing end caps off of the pressure vessels. The recirculation systems on them keep the membranes cleaner and maintain flows for much longer periods of time,something that's important when you've got a lot of sap and very little time. With my Lapierre Turbo RO I can sweeten to 13% in a single pass and over 20% on the second pass. I have 725 taps on vacuum and a 2x6 evaporator and my 250 RO is the perfect size. If I was going to do 1,000 or more taps I would want a bigger RO to be able to keep up.

How big of membranes do you have? 2" x 40?

[maple flats]

Just guessing, but it may be a 2 membrane 4"x40". They are common in the 250 size.

[Russell Lampron]

How big of membranes do you have? 2" x 40?

I have two 4"x40" membranes. I'm using MES MS2 membranes in it and am really happy with them.

[mcraejc]

I'm also looking into buying an RO for my operation and I'm also having trouble deciding what to do.
I know people always talk about max taps for an RO but is there a rough minimum number of taps that you should have
for a given RO size?
For example what would be ideal tap count for a 125 GPM machine vs a 250 GPM?

And Russ sounds like you would recommend a lapierre turbo 125 over the lapierre junior or the cdl hobby. Is that a pretty common sentiment with everybody?

[Russell Lampron]

I'm also looking into buying an RO for my operation and I'm also having trouble deciding what to do.
I know people always talk about max taps for an RO but is there a rough minimum number of taps that you should have
for a given RO size?
For example what would be ideal tap count for a 125 GPM machine vs a 250 GPM?

And Russ sounds like you would recommend a lapierre turbo 125 over the lapierre junior or the cdl hobby. Is that a pretty common sentiment with everybody?

I was doing 725 taps with my Lapierre 125 Turbo. It was doable but it took a long time when I had a big run. I added a second membrane to it for this season and turned it into a 250. The 125 will easily handle 400 taps but concentrating times and cleaning times had to be scheduled in when the tap count got higher than that. The machine didn't sit idle much. Just adding the second membrane cut the run times down dramatically and what used to take several hours now only takes a couple. With raw sap I can throughput over 300 gph without pushing the pressure to the max.

Yes I would recommend a Lapierre Turbo over a Lapierre Junior or CDL Hobby RO. I don't know about the CDL 125 RO but the Lapierre 125 Turbo can be upgraded to a 250 easily. My machine happened to already have the second controller and wiring in it which made it less expensive and that much easier to do.

[mol1jb]

I'm also looking into buying an RO for my operation and I'm also having trouble deciding what to do.
I know people always talk about max taps for an RO but is there a rough minimum number of taps that you should have
for a given RO size?
For example what would be ideal tap count for a 125 GPM machine vs a 250 GPM?

And Russ sounds like you would recommend a lapierre turbo 125 over the lapierre junior or the cdl hobby. Is that a pretty common sentiment with everybody?

Like with anything, it depends. If I had the money, the professional units like Lapierre and CDL would be nice. But since I was on a tighter budget, I went with Deer Run Maple. Still a great machine and a huge time saver but not as many bells and whistles.

It would be better to get an RO either a little on the large side or something that can be expanded easily. People always ask about max taps for a reason. Its not if you will expand, but when.

[Asa Matras]

Ty Dave, your insights are right on. A feature I really like on CDL is the ability to drain it as we don't have a heated space. Probably will add on to sugarhouse in some shape to keep everything insulated. Now I just need to pony up the bucks.We had a cdl 250 for 6 years. It was ok. fyi it doesn't really drain. Theres still water left in the membrane and it would bust fittings. At least make a little box to put over it thats insulated.

[VTnewguy]

We had a cdl 250 for 6 years. It was ok. fyi it doesn't really drain. Theres still water left in the membrane and it would bust fittings. At least make a little box to
put over it thats insulated.

That's really good to know! Thank you. That was a big draw for me as we don't have a heated space.

[bj's sugaring]

I have been happy with my lapierre junior 200. It performs exactly as advertised, with 100 gal water removal per hour at 50/50 concentrate permeate. I can certainly squeeze harder but i choose to pass twice. I typically process 500 gallons of 2% to 10% in 3.5 hrs, with nf90 membranes.

[mcraejc]

Thanks for the info. It is very helpful.
Not to hijack the thread, but what do people do when you have an RO and a significantly smaller head tank than sap tank? Can you use a reverse float to turn the RO off or do you just watch to make sure it doesn’t overflow the head tank?

[bj's sugaring]

Thanks for the info. It is very helpful.
Not to hijack the thread, but what do people do when you have an RO and a significantly smaller head tank than sap tank? Can you use a reverse float to turn the RO off or do you just watch to make sure it doesn’t overflow the head tank?

I wouldnt short cycle the ro. I would reciculate into the sap tank until you get desired concentration and then pump to head tank from there. Youd have to be diligent about cleaning the sap tank more often than usual.

Ideally you have a concentrate tank or head that will hold around 50% of your sap tank.

[Super Sapper]

Thanks for the info. It is very helpful.
Not to hijack the thread, but what do people do when you have an RO and a significantly smaller head tank than sap tank? Can you use a reverse float to turn the RO off or do you just watch to make sure it doesn’t overflow the head tank?

I have an overflow line from my head tank to my sap tank.

[mol1jb]

I have an overflow line from my head tank to my sap tank.

Same here. Best thing I did when I set up my RO. If your concentrate get to the top of your head tank it just flows out the overflow line back into your sap tank. My sap tank is 500 gallons and my head tank is 50 gallons but I run the evaporator after an hour or so of concentrating so my head tank doesn't usually fill to the top. I did once this season and the overflow line worked just like it should.

[DrTimPerkins]

I have an overflow line from my head tank to my sap tank.

A very good idea if you have a smallish concentrate tank.

[Russell Lampron]

I have a 600 gallon sap tank, a 275 gallon concentrate tank and a 175 gallon head tank. I adjust the concentrate flow rate so that I can walk away from the RO and not overflow the concentrate tank and I sweeten my concentrate enough before I send it to the head tank so that I'll never even fill that.

[mcraejc]

I have an overflow line from my head tank to my sap tank.

That is a fantastic idea. I will have to add that for sure.
I have a 500 gallon sap tank and 75 gallon head tank, so it would probably work like a charm.

[Mead Maple]

Great info here for the little guys! I love the overflow idea. Would be easy to retro small tanks this way too with common parts picked up at the hardware store!


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