2019 Bulk price

[Dill]

Can't find a thread, anyone know what the bulk price is looking like?

[Michael Greer]

Spend more time working on a marketing strategy and you won't care about the bulk price. Every drop I make goes at $52 and I see no logical reason to enrich some other fellow with all my hard labor.

[saphead]

Right around $23/Gal. @ Bascom's the last I heard,of course varies with grade and dealer.

[hookhill]

Lester at Highland Sugarworks told us it was 2.10/lb. That was 3 weeks ago. In regard to the comment "spend more time marketing"...Most of us get into sugaring to make syrup not running around soliciting your product. Maybe selling a thousand gallons of syrup retail is easy for some. I imagine for many it is not that easy. Retail is really another job. If that is what you like to do then sure, why not. I know some sugarmakers that do the farmers markets all summer long. Personally sitting in a chair peddling syrup on a nice summer day is my idea of hell. To sum it up I am glad there are bulk buyers. A guy can sell most of his syrup, get paid and go do something else.

[BAP]

Spend more time working on a marketing strategy and you won't care about the bulk price. Every drop I make goes at $52 and I see no logical reason to enrich some other fellow with all my hard labor.
It is pretty naive to think that bulk price has nothing to do with your retail price of syrup. Your retail price will feel pressure from the bulk price unless you are able to supply all your own and have NO competition. When bulk market tanks, retail price gets pulled down as more try to retail and because of increased competition you have to keep lowering the retail price in order to keep selling Syrup. So it turns into the great race to the bottom.

[maple flats]

I've said it before and will say it again. Do all you can to retail your syrup, within your time constraints. I sell all of mine retail and even in a good season I still need to buy some to meet my sales. I have only spent 1 summer selling at a farmer's market, but some producers do 2 or 3 every week. Even some who make their living on maple. I only sell at 3-4 places. Number 1 is my website, #2 is sometimes my house, sometimes my 1 retail outlet and the 4th is the sugarhouse, mostly at open houses. I spend $180/year for the only advertising I do (plus 5% of net sales thru that ad.). Yes, marketing is a whole different job, but if you want to make any money you will do it. The best part about selling to the consumer is that, if you have a good product you will usually have a long term customer. I have customers who buy from 8-12 gal/year to one who buys 25 gal/year, all in half gallon jugs. I also have customers who buy a whole case (24 bottles) of bourbon barrel aged syrup 2-3 times a year, at full retail I might add. These and other customers take time, but again, if you make a good product they will come. It took me about 7-8 years before I sold 200 gal a year at retail, now I sell 300-350 all at retail. I already had to buy 1 barrel full this year because my trees thawed slower than some others who had southern exposure bushes.
If you try a few ways, without even needing to take the time to sell at farmer's markets you'd be pleasantly surprised how much you will sell.
Those who buy bulk make the money, not the producer, just like in dairy farming. The bulk prices will hardly cover your costs.

[Hop Kiln Road]

In this market a small producer will lose money if they don't size their operation to their retail market. The only thing that can beat the Canadians in the current bulk market environment is bravo. The history of the supply side theory is littered with carcasses.

[BAP]

Another thread going sideways because people aren’t answering the OP’s question, but instead going off on a tangent of how bad it is to even consider what bulk pricing is. I don’t know what bulk currently is because I haven’t inquired lately. Everyone knows that you can make more retail than bulk, if you have the time and markets to do so. So to keep beating that horse to death doesn’t answer Dill’s question.

[UB29]

Alden,
$2.10/lb when I was at Bascom's on Saturday.
Also, I sent you a PM with an insurance question. Did you get it?
Thanks, Bill

[Sugarmaker]

Glad there is a market for bulk syrup! Prices will probably stay in that range as it seems to have been a good to above average year for production of syrup. It takes time and money to retail any product.
Regards,
Chris

[whiteout]

Called bascoms this morning. Golden delicate and amber 2.10 lb,dark robust 2.00 lb,very dark 1.75 lb

[Mille705]

When you sell bulk like that, what size or how small of a container will they buy?

[BAP]

Bascoms’s will take any size down to the 5 gallon blue jugs. They pay 5 cents per pound less if in 5 gallon jugs.

[Russell Lampron]

It appears that the bulk price hasn't changed since I was at Bascom's in January. What happens in April when Canada sets the price is anybody's guess. If Quebec has a bad season they could go up but don't count on it.

I would have liked to add to the hijack of this thread but won't.

[Dill]

Ya my plan is not to sell any in bulk. I sold 20 gallons last year. 10 gals that I thought had an off flavor and 10 gals of black burned crap. But I like to keep the bulk price in the back of my mind when I'm giving people deals on larger amounts of syrup. Like today I sold an old guy 10 gals in qts. While I gave him a good discount over my normal price I still did way way better then bulk.

[backyardsugarer]

Bulk Prices will not go up anytime soon. 10 years ago I was the only producer in the area now there are 5 "producers" within 10 miles of me. It is a trend and the guys with big overhead will have to be squeezed out when times are tough to re-balance the market. Luckily I retail all of my syrup to my local loyals and only bulk my pan scraps (around 20 gallons). It was nice to get $3.20 back in the day for nasty syrup but those days are gone.

[bowtie]

No offense but what's up wth the quotations on producers???

[maple flats]

Bowtie, those aspects all play a part in bulk prices. Likely the reason Bascom's is quoted is because he is one of the largest in the north east.
The bulk price has a lot more to do with the exchange rate between the US and Canada than it does with the new producers in thew business, maybe with a couple of exceptions. There are 2 either new players or ones who have made a huge expansion recently.
The main fact is that Quebec, who makes 70% or more of the world syrup supply sets their price and then the exchange rate brings that price way down for us in the States. As of today a dollar Canadian is only $.75 US, thus the price in Canada is down to only 75% of that in the U.S. Yes they need to pay freight and duties but that 75% ratio figures in big. If you travel to Canada that rate helps in your mind but in reality most things in Canada will cost about 33% more give or take.
bowtie, if you want to know the price of bulk don't you want to also know where that price is? Not all bulk buyers pay the same, some may be higher and others may be lower, but they will be close, at least until any buyer has all they want at that time, then they will either buy none or they will pay less per pound.
By the way, syrup consumption has risen at a 7% rate every year for the last several years world wide, and only the US and Canada make maple syrup.

[Dill]

I'll tell you why I'd put quote marks around "Producers" I've got 2 local to me. That have made quite a name for themselves at farmers markets. And if they make a 1/10th of the syrup they sell I'd be surprised. Guess since its my thread I can hijack right?
I remember getting paid real money for buddy syrup when I first started. And 3.50 a lb for decent stuff.

[maplwrks]

Bascoms has raised their prices to $2.10 a pound a couple of weeks ago. Word around Vermont is that production will be impacted greatly by the weather this year. A few of the packers have been out in the field recruiting new producers to help make up their shortfall. I feel that syrup prices may still go up in the not too distant future. Don't be afraid to sit on your syrup for a little while.

[backyardsugarer]

The " " indicated a few individuals that make very little syrup, buy at cheap bulk, repackage with their label and resell. Nothing illegal but their equipment is more of a facade than anything else. A good hint is the people that don't sell larger than a quart of syrup. That's because the margin is too small on gallons and half gallons when you are buying the syrup rather than producing it yourself. Again nothing illegal just not real "producers" in my eyes.

[javahill]

We're planning to scale up to where bulk could make sense. Questions are mostly about logistics. What size barrels do you use? And when you sell the syrup, what happens to the barrels? Do the buyers empty syrup into their own barrels or are they buying the barrel, too? Or do they track barrels by who sold it and then return it later?
Thanks

[Russell Lampron]

We're planning to scale up to where bulk could make sense. Questions are mostly about logistics. What size barrels do you use? And when you sell the syrup, what happens to the barrels? Do the buyers empty syrup into their own barrels or are they buying the barrel, too? Or do they track barrels by who sold it and then return it later?
Thanks

Bascom's prefers 15 gallon or larger barrels but will take 5 gallons jugs too. On the 15 gallon and up barrels you drop them off, they empty them and you go back and pick them up. They put your name on a board and what you dropped off for barrels. On the 5 gallon jugs they empty them while you wait but pay 5 cents per pound less for your syrup.

[motowbrowne]

The " " indicated a few individuals that make very little syrup, buy at cheap bulk, repackage with their label and resell. Nothing illegal but their equipment is more of a facade than anything else. A good hint is the people that don't sell larger than a quart of syrup. That's because the margin is too small on gallons and half gallons when you are buying the syrup rather than producing it yourself. Again nothing illegal just not real "producers" in my eyes.

Around here, Anderson's maple syrup made a big name for themselves doing exactly that. Spun a real nice yarn on the bottle about staying up late cooking syrup under the full moon, when they hadn't lit their cooker in years.

[Wannabe]

Around here, Anderson's maple syrup made a big name for themselves doing exactly that. Spun a real nice yarn on the bottle about staying up late cooking syrup under the full moon, when they hadn't lit their cooker in years.

Anderson's and the people backyardsugarer are talking about sound like some smart businessmen.ha

[motowbrowne]

Anderson's and the people backyardsugarer are talking about sound like some smart businessmen.ha

Well, last I checked, you don't get your name on a Nascar truck for free, so yeah, I think Anderson's is doing alright for themselves... :)

[backyardsugarer]

It sure beats the hard work of making the stuff at $22 - $24 a gallon bulk. Not really, I enjoy the process and would never sell anything I did not make myself.

[Dill]

Got a flyer for the CDL open house in Lancaster found it interesting they are buying bulk this year. But only full drums.

[GeneralStark]

Looks like the U.S. crop turned out alright...

https://www.themaplenews.com/story/season-update-9-us-season-over-and-possibly-big/249/?fbclid=IwAR1V24q8T_KAOauX5rNoNPWako9omvbt62kwnFjm 0NbwB87EZB6qeQOvaC0

[DrTimPerkins]

Story matches well what we've been hearing. Haven't heard a lot out of Quebec as yet. There is an IMSI meeting next week, so we should have a better sense of 2019 production region-wide after that.

[Russell Lampron]

Has the federation set the price for this year yet?

[maplwrks]

I talked with a few folks from Quebec during the open houses. They were in the thick of the season, enduring some of the same type of runs that we had here in Vt. Looks like they will be near an average crop.

[DrTimPerkins]

Has the federation set the price for this year yet?

Unlike U.S. packer prices, the Federation (FQAP) prices are typically set well in advance of the season. http://ppaq.ca/en/producer/useful-information/price/

GD C$2.95
AR C$2.94
DR C$2.85
VDS C$2.55

Organic bonus C$0.18
SS Barrel premium C$0.025
Galvanized barrel penalty -C$0.075

There are also penalties for over or under density syrup ranging from -C$0.10 to -C$1.00

Note that these values are all in Canadian $. Canadian $ is worth about $0.74 today. If you parse out the "effects" of exchange rate versus supply, the Canadian/U.S. Exchange rate accounts for 96% of the difference, with the remaining 4% due to oversupply/packer factors. Overall, this is a considerable improvement over the last few years in what U.S. producers get for syrup, and indicates that "oversupply" is not having much of an impact on prices U.S. producers receive for their syrup. More room for U.S. expansion perhaps?