Lateral tubing

[PATheron]

Im using four season blue lateral tubing from maple pro. When running it sometimes in between trees that are spaced out it tends to sag. How tight do you dare pull it if your installing it now in warm weather. Can you pull it right up snug so it looks nice or will it tighten up too much that way this winter and damage the tube by reducing the inside diameter. I know the old soft stuff would do. What do you guys think pull it up nice and snug or leave it a little loose? Theres not too many places its a real problem its more an appearance deal. Theron

[Parker]

You should have it tight,,no sags for sap to freeze in at night-you will know it is too tight when you start pulling the fittings apart (although I use ridgid tubing) you should be able to tighten it up niceley when you cut your drops in.

[chipa]

How far is it between trees? You should have the tubing tight enough so there are no sags. The 4 seasons tubing wont tighten up too much like the older stuff when it cools off. Are you using a eye or some type tightner at the top tree? Make sure the laterals are tight before you install your drops (if you tighten them afterward the drops move away from the trees. )

[ennismaple]

I pull it as tight as I can when I'm stretching it from the head tree to the mainline. It'll loosen a bit once the droplines get cut in. The other comments are correct that 4-seasons does not have a lot of thermal expansion or contraction.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

When you are cutting in drops, you are lengthing it aprox an inch at each drop, so I usually cut out small sections ever few drops to compensate.

[PATheron]

Im using an end of line fitting from maple pro. It goes around the end tree and hooks over the line. Its designed so you could just unhook it and take the lat off. Usually its not too far between trees but sometimes its 20 30' becouse its pretty clean woods. I was just afraid to pull it too tight becouse i didnt know how much it stretches. Sounds like Im ok to go ahead and pull it pretty much as hard as i want by hand without worry? The line is from maple pro 5/16 IPL blue pink line 5 years, 4 seasons. Thanks for the tip about cutting the little peice out. Definitely wouldnt of thought about that. Theron

[Pete33Vt]

Go ahead and pull it tight, Just make sure you are not pulling to tight on your main line fittings. We use the fittings that hook directely to the wire then run a short section of line around to hook into our mainline saddles. We have some old sections that we changed over to ridgid tubing and really pulled it tight but ended up with a leak at the mainline because we were pulling on the mainline fittings to tightly.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I try to bring my laterals in at a tree and used the D&Y fork which allows me to pull it as tight as possible and all the pressure is on the tree and not on the mainline.

[Parker]

When I am cutting in my drops if the tubing is loose I will pull the extra tubing thru the jaws befor I clamp it and cut that extra ammount out,,then put in my drop,,my 2 handed tubing tool (the one I use to put the drops in) opens around 4 inches and the "T" only takes up about an inch in the lateral line once istalled,,,I also use the wire hooks and like them very much.

[PATheron]

Im using end of line fittings at the last tree and the hooked fittings that hook onto the high tension wire at the main. I usually run it by a tree right close to the main to get the right angle. Sounds like I definitely have to take slop out so ill use up what I cut out when im making up the pieces to go from the lat fitting to the saddle then ill have very little waste. I like that you guys are saying pull it tight becouse then I can make it look real good and get good slope I just didnt want to stretch the tube. Is that tubing im using kind of the norm? Is that what most of the rest of you use? Theron

[Parker]

I use just ridgid,,some 30-p and some mapleflex from the mapleguys that run this site,,,I am very happy with both types. Theron- I was just reading on another thread that you got a 35CFM liquid ring pump,(serious?),How many taps and how big is your evaporator,and how much wood do you have cut? Fresh taps with a decent system and pulling over 20",,,,I bet your going to be very busy if you dont get an R.O.,,,how many syrup barrels do you have?

[maplecrest]

I set up a new woods last year using the 10 year semi blue 4 seasons which i pulled down as tight as i could using a tubing tool and it stays nice. at the end of the project i sent my son to get tubing ,he came home with ten rolls of the 5 year blue pink. that tubing you will have to go back and tighten up a few times. i do not like it, it remindes me of a modern us maple. that was always in need of tightening. it is very elastic, not semi ridgid.

[brookledge]

A question for those that use the hook conectors at the main line.
Do they slide much if they are coming in at an angle to the mainline? I have always used the black hollow core nylon rope that slides over the 5/16 and it works good for any angle. The last time I re did any tubing they did not have those hook fittings.
I suppose you could put a wire tie to try to keep it from sliding.
Keith

[PATheron]

Parker- Im not sure yet exactly how many taps I have. I should have all tube in the air saturday and then I just have to put the drops and saddles in and ill be about done. Should be somewhere around 1000 I think. Itll be at least 800. Ive tried to install the tubing as close to the book as possable I think ive come pretty close. The pump is a 35 cfm Squire Cogswell liquid ring 5hp. The evap is a 3 by 10 raised flue stock from maple pro. Ive got about 20 cords of good wood. I was going to wait untill i got the ro to buy the pump but I decided what the heck itll keep me off the streets. I was going to buy the ro too but my wife was starting to get irritated about the checkbook. Patterson said hell provide me with all the barrels I want to fill so I think im all set. Jeff, I thought that stuff was pretty stretchy too but your saying go ahead and pull it tight too, right? Brookledge- I use those hooks at the main line and I try to find a tree close to the line to get the right angle and it seems to work pretty good. They fit real tight and I thought about using tie wraps if i need to too. Theron

[chipa]

With that many taps buy a dropline tool; it will save you so much time installing the drops and doing repairs. It is nice to have a one-handed tool also.

[royalmaple]

Keith-

I either try to put the hook right on a wire tie, or if it is a crazy angle I just put a wire tie around it and has worked pretty well.

[ennismaple]

I've started using wire ties to connect the slide fitting to the steel instead of the plastic hooks. IMO they work better. The plastic hooks look flimsy and I've already had some come off and damage the nipple on the manifold. I either come into the mainline at 90° or I go around a tree at or near the mainline to get the right angle. Plus, you should be cutting in your saddle manifolds after you've stretched your laterals so let the lateral tell you where it wants to be and then install the manifold.

[Homestead Maple]

4 seasons tubing is like an elastic, you can over do it when pulling that stuff tight, it's not like the rigid stuff such as 30P. It doesn't pull off fittings, it just tightens like a Chinese hand cuff. I've got some I can show you that a moose got into and it went from 7/16s down to about 3/16s before it got untangled from it. Snug is good with 4 seasons but don't over do it.

[maplecrest]

the problem with moose is that they have only one direction [foward] i have had to cut out some tubing that was shrunk. as for the hooks, they are made to hook to the wire supporting the main line pipe.they snap on and stay real well. in situations of odd angles i use wire ties in an X over the hooked connector so that it cannot move. one thing i am also going to do this season is wire tie the manifolds when i put them in, to help keep them tight and not leak vac.

[PATheron]

Jeff- I had the same thought about wire tying the saddles. You think with me doing all this new I might want to do that? Its kind of funny hearing you guys complain about the moose. Ive never even seen a moose. If I see a moose in my woods Ill shoe him back up your way. Theron

[Homestead Maple]

I've talked with guys from Vt. that have told me they've seen moose walking around with enough tubing in their antlers that they looked like a decorated Christmas tree.

[Parker]

I put 3 wireties on each saddel,one around each side ond one around the bottom,,when putting the saddels on I get them as tight as I can by hand then take a pair of vise grips and get them a littel tighter, then wire tie them,,,,and I use the hooks that connect the lateral line to the wire,,,oftentimes the saddel is where my leak is,,,,,,

[maplecrest]

i use the tubing tool to put saddles on the main line. some of the main line being made now is smaller in o/d than the saddles. so i cut a small piece of main line and put it under the ratchet of the saddle and then tighten. it takes the slop out for a good tight fit. then i am going the wire tie this season.if i used grip i would break the wire every time. the tieing tool works too good for me

[danno]

I usually wait until I tap before pulling the tubing system as tight as possible. It defintely will sag at the end of the season with heavy, wet snows sitting on the lines and I let it sag off season, but come tapping season, stretch it tight.

For long distances between trees, getting all the sag out can be difficult. I've been known to throw in an artificial tree inbetween two trees that are 30-40 feet apart. I've set one or two 6 foot fence posts in my woods directly between the two trees and I run the tubing just as if that fence post was a tree. Works best if the post is hammered in at a slight angle away from the tube side, I then hammer down the little nail flange on the fence post and the tube will sit right on it and not slide down the post.

[chipa]

try out Darveau saddles . No wire ties required; they go around the pipe and secure with a screw. No leaks. The saddles can handle one or two laterals;they make a "90" for the single lateral application or you use a tee if you have 2 laterals. The tee and 90 insert in the top of the saddle.

[maplecrest]

an update on the blue pink 4 seasons. just took a walk thru my new woods from last year. the 10 year semi cdl is tight like i left it. the pink blue is all going to need to be tightened up. is all sagging to ground. would be great for drops but not for lats.if to do again i would have waited and used 30p, if ten year was not available.i am a fan of the grey 15 year but cannot see spending the kind of money that they want for it

[PATheron]

Do you guys usually put the drop right at the tree or do you lay it out a few inches hoping the squirrels arent as apt to eat it for dinner that way. I have a lot of squirrels and they seem to prefer a vented system as apposed to a nonvented system. Im hoping when I turn that pump on and they chew on it itll have cfm enough to suck them right through that 5/16 clear to the bulktank. Theron

[maplecrest]

those rodents, will chew new tubing, then leave it alone, unless you use bleach to clean it. i have to go back a few times to the same place after a new set up then they will leave it alone. i did loose 100 spouts once they chewed them off the tubing and ran with the spout. there is a tree full of spouts and a starved rodent. but i guess that they can live for awhile on plastic. think east and south when you cut your drops in. if you put it on the north or dark side of the tree it will be slow to thaw out.and first too freeze.if the tube passes the noth side of the tree then cut drop in a little away from tree on the south or east side. watch the sun on the trees when you cut your drops. peantbutter and rat traps work good in problem areas tied to the tree.

[PATheron]

Weve got a lot less squirrels than we used to. They used to be my little friends untill the first time I put some new tubing in. Funniest thing usually when I see one of them they fall right out of tree. Brain hemmorage or something. My whole woods faces due east so when the sun comes up it shines right on them, Ill try to put the drops east or south. Maple pro gave me the end of line fittings. They go at the last tree and the sap has to go around the tree. I think you guys were talking about the sap has to go all the way around the tree. With me putting everything on high vac that really isnt much of a issue is it? Theron

[ennismaple]

I prefer the end line fittings instead of the y-fittings for the first tree. The sap moves around that tree no problem. With a Y fitting you get a dead area at the back of that tree where the sap doesn't know if it should go left or right.

[PATheron]

I kind of like the fittings I got. I think maple pro calls them end of line fittings. The nice thing is they dont slip over the line like the other ones they had they clip on so if you wanted to remove a tree or something you could just unclip it and take down the lat and roll it up and put it right back. The only bad thing im not sure you could tighten up the line like you could wiith the others becouse it would probly slip. The other ones I had were good for that. Theron