How small is too small for RO?

[Birdland Sugarbush]

I’m considering getting an RO unit. Maybe one of the Aro in a bucket models.

Currently I’m at about 40 to 45 taps all on buckets.

Is this too small for an RO? I seem to be running out of wood and energy at about midway during the season.

This seems like a good way to save time energy and Wood

Chris


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[Sugarmaker]

No right or wrong answer about what equipment to have. But I always recommend that you try to balance the whole operation so that your comfortable. Not too many taps for the rig your boiling on. Add equipment as you can afford and to allow you to process at your pace, And each of us has a comfort zone. The R.O is the work horse of the industry. I personally don't have one. Some larger runs and longer boils made me stop and consider a R.O.!:) Sounds like it would be a good addition to your maple equipment family!
Good luck and keep boiling.
I am still boiling raw sap and may stay that way??? Now I need to go out and round up some more wood if I am going to try to go through this next run!:)
Regards,
Chris

[CaptT820]

We went RO when we couldnt handle the sap volume anymore. That equation will be different for everyone. Once we started getting more sap than we could store, we went to RO. I built it with the phenomenal plans on this site for less than $500. The amount of time that it saves us makes back that money in one season or less. We went from 12 hr boils to 3-4 hour boils.

[DRoseum]

I would DEFINITELY recommend building an RO. I tap 35 trees and found it very useful. You can build one for around $200 and honestly it's the best $200 I ever spent on maple syrup equipment. Video on it is below. It uses an aquatec 8800 and filter and membranes available on Amazon. Feel free to contact me if you want any more details or help.
https://youtu.be/s106bSrcfno
https://www.sugartree.run/p/sugaring-diy.html

[bawplank]

what plans did you use?

[DRoseum]

Loosely modeled after the RO bucket, but I am an engineer so I speced out the parts and made sure pressures and flow rates were all compatible.

3/8 in and 1/4 out since cross sectional area of inlet has to equal cross sectional areas of combined outlets.

You want the membrane and filter (and housings) to match pressure (100 -110 psi of the pump) and to be able to handle flow rate of the pump.

[claystroup]

This was my first year with an RO and it was a game changer. I tapped 110 trees and have a 2 x 5 flat pan that will evaporate 15-16 gph. I bought a Next Generation RO rated at 45 gph. On some days we would get 200 gallons of sap. I would start the RO at 7am then start the evaporator at 9am after the RO had a head start. Would be done boiling around 4pm. The RO would process out 100 gallons of pure water (permeate) that I didn't have to evaporate which would save me about 6-7 hours of boiling time. it was nice to eat supper at 6pm with my wife instead of boiling till 10pm.

[Birdland Sugarbush]

That’s kind of my thought. Getting enough wood and making enough time is getting challenging. I want to keep it enjoyable! Hoping reducing the boiling time will make that difference for me.


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[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Look at the ro buckets for that size. Start there on the cheap and build up as needed like others suggested. We have a 2x6 oil evaporator and need more sap before an RO. Hoping to start adding vacuum first then maybe an ro. It’s always best to try and balance it all.

[wobbletop]

I have 20 taps and use a home made RO with 1 150gpd membrane and 1 400gpd membrane in series. It goes from about 2.6% to about 5-6% sugar.

The small operations like me also have small evaporators. I have a barrel evaporator that does about 3 gallon per hour on a good day. Without the RO it would take me at least 24 hours to boil that I do in 12 hours now.

I wouldn't think of not using it.

[Jake8484]

Dan, Thanks for sharing the info on the RO. I have been thinking about making one and after seeing your video and your website I will most likely be making one for my next boiling season.
Very nice website and thanks for the info on cleaning equipment, etc. Hope you keep the site up so it can be used next year.

[jdircksen]

I had 31 taps this year and wouldn't do it without the RO. I have 3 150gpd membranes and it does 2%->5% and all I do is make sure it is running. without the RO, I'd be spending 2x as much time making syrup which is not ideal with young kids at home.

just remember that you need to keep your RO running clean just like the people with bigger ROs do. That means flushing it with clean water at the end of the day, and using special RO soap and membrane preservative if you are going more than a few days without running it.

[DRoseum]

No problem and glad you like it! Want to help spread the joy of sugaring to others! :)

I hope to keep it up and running. Subscribing to the site and the YouTube channel sure help keep it going. Trying to offset the cost to keep it up.

Thanks again
Dan

[30AcreWoods]

I Definitely recommend the RO. Either building one, or the RO Bucket. I have a 3 membrane system and it makes making syrup reasonable for me. Less time and a lot less wood. I usually pump my sap into a holding tank and run the RO overnight and into the next day. I crank it up to 8% concentrate. When I get home, I only need to boil for about 3-4 hours to make 3-4 gallons of syrup with my Half Pint Supreme. It's amazing, and the homemade/RO Bucket systems are accessible for most of us - way cheaper than buying a larger evaporator. In my opinion (I'm a nerdy engineer), it is the best investment you can make if you want to have a fun, small-scale syrup operation without boiling all day and all night...

[csk91]

I have 25 taps. Bought the mid level RO bucket. Very happy I did. It cut my boil time in 1/2. I generally collected 50-100 gal of sap per week. I run it all through the RO once and start to boil. Once I start the boil I run the concentrate through a second time and cut it in 1/2 again. I can get 100 gal of sap down to 30 gal of concentrate to boil. At 5 gallons per hour to boil... Marriage saver

[30AcreWoods]

I totally agree. Most nights I get to eat dinner! Have you experimented with the time difference between cranking the back pressure up to get 7% or 8% concentrate right from the start vs. running the sap through twice before boiling to see which is faster?

[ecolbeck]

I totally agree. Most nights I get to eat dinner! Have you experimented with the time difference between cranking the back pressure up to get 7% or 8% concentrate right from the start vs. running the sap through twice before boiling to see which is faster?

My understanding is that it depends on the configuration of your RO. 50% removal per membrane is the operational limit for these small ROs. If you have multiple membranes plumbed in series you could possibly get concentrations in the 8% range in a single pass. If the membranes are plumbed in parallel, then the best you can do is removing 50% of the water (doubling concentration).
Processing speed and concentration are inversely related. High concentrations are achieved slowly. I run my 3 membrane parallel RO at only 25% removal (high speed) to keep up with my 20gph evaporator. Next year I may try to concentrate ahead of time.

[30AcreWoods]

I have three membranes in series with a low pressure pump feeding the high pressure pump. I am able to bring 2% sap up to 8% concentrate. My method is to pump sap late in the evening, then run the RO all night, and boil the next day (with a low flow switch to shut the pumps down). I ran two membranes in parallel last year and it was definitely slower - but that was without the low pressure pump. If I get one more good run this season I will try to recirculate in the tank and take out 50%, but do two passes and see what happens. I've found that washing the membranes and replacing the filter after passing 140-160 gallons of sap helps as well. Obviously, the sap temperature has a significant impact on throughput.

[Lanark]

Can I use a RO system that is made for under the sink tap water? If not, what is the difference?

[Ntatar]

We are similar in size. Are in a sugar shack? I'm running the evaporator in the driveway and thinking about running the RO machine in the garage the night before. Problem is that I've got 30 ft between the RO in the garage and the evaporator...

[maple flats]

Can I use a RO system that is made for under the sink tap water? If not, what is the difference?
The big difference is that they are set up opposite and are likely too small even for your size operation.
The under sink units throw out the concentrate and keep the permeate, the opposite of what we need and most are real small, rated in gallons per day (24 hrs non stop).
While one could help a little, you will be far better off buying or making one for maple.

[30AcreWoods]

How much sap do you need to process? My little RO would easily push the concentrate 30-ft...but you'd need to store it if you are running overnight. One simple solution I've used is a 55-gal food grade barrel on a chunk of wood. I cut a valve in the bottom and use it to hold concentrate overnight. Word of caution: boil immediately as the high sugar content of concentrate means bacteria grow super-fast, so the sap will spoil quickly.

[DRoseum]

RO is great time saver. If you go to a 3 membrane set up, make sure you size your pump accordingly to get enough flow at high pressure (~100 psi on most 400 gpd membranes). Also I would highly recommend setting them up as a 2 stage set up. 2 in parallel and the third in series, combining the output of the 2 in parallel as its input. 20404