Maple sapling plantation: is anyone trying it?

[finbar]

Been reading extensively about Proctor Maple Research Center's work with producing sap from saplings, but I haven't heard anything recently about it.

Curious if anyone has tried this on the side yet and how it's working? Really interested to see if it is cost effective at all.

[DrTimPerkins]

I highly doubt anyone is trying it. Although we continue to get a lot of phone calls and emails, we are very strongly discouraging people from trying it at the present time, primarily because there are no commercially available "caps" to aid in the collection of sap. This is one of the more difficult aspects to the method. We know what works well (and what doesn't), but given the patent process, we can't go into depth about it until that runs its course. You'd be mistaken if you thought that we gave all the details. Perhaps more coming on that a bit down the road though.

[jscheib]

Dr. Perkins I am very interest in this method since I am from Indiana and we aren’t blessed with abundant forest, but I love to make syrup. I have done some research and it takes 7-10 years before you can start cutting or tapping the saplings. Do you know of anyone doing this kind of process and is willing to show me their setup and process. From what I have read it seems that this method could be used in areas with limited forest. I would really like to do it to show local farmers that profits can be made from forestry activities. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks

[fred]

Its an excellent opportunity for those that have had the woods clear cut. I would not advise planting a field , its not going to be financially sound based on the current research and the output of the tree

[DrTimPerkins]

jscheib….nobody that I am aware of is doing it yet, but we are also actively DISCOURAGING people from trying it for several reasons and don't provide any further information than what we have already disclosed. The primary reason for this being that there are not (yet) any commercially available sap extraction caps to make it feasible. Having a good seal of the stem with the cap is NOT as easy as you might think. We believe that the first applications will be in areas of dense saplings that need thinning. As far as plantation systems, we have several thousand young stems in fields at PMRC, and I expect there will be more work done as soon as they are the right size (a few more years). Where that gets really interesting is if you can start with genetically superior (sweet sap) planting stock, in which case the sugar yield/are can exponentially exceed what is possible in a typical forest situation right now...however the upfront cost to that system is high, with several years before payback can be expected.

In short, I think this idea is about 50-100 yrs ahead of its time.

[Maplewalnut]

Its an excellent opportunity for those that have had the woods clear cut. I would not advise planting a field , its not going to be financially sound based on the current research and the output of the tree

If I had a couple open acres, I would be planting red maples. More tolerant of different soils and regenerates and suckers much faster than sugar maple if the sapling technique does advance. Quick goggle search shows red maple seedlings $0.45 each when ordering 500 or more. Not much investment in my mind

[fred]

If I had a couple open acres, I would be planting red maples. More tolerant of different soils and regenerates and suckers much faster than sugar maple if the sapling technique does advance. Quick goggle search shows red maple seedlings $0.45 each when ordering 500 or more. Not much investment in my mind

if i was to plant for this it would be 6" apart 3' wide rows but as tim said not a production option yet. i see this more usable as a previous cut woods that needs straightened out and retain sap by killing the tree.

[minehart gap]

Because the primary reason given is the lack of commercially made caps because of the patient process, I believe that means come up with your own method of fabricating a cap that seals for your own use. If the patent is for the idea of the method and for the product itself you can still fabricate something for your own use without infringement on the patent. Again, I believe that it's when you try to profit from the sale of an item that is under patent that you are acting illegally. The more ideas and methods that people research and develop, the better for the consumer and the industry.

The more knowledge gained, the better and you might come up with a item that is different enough to apply for your own patent.

[fred]

[QUOTE=minehart gap;373186 you might come up with a item that is different enough to apply for your own patent.[/QUOTE]

has nothing to do with a patent. at this point they cant make a way to have a good seal for the branch under vacuum and for various sizes.

[minehart gap]

Fred, my apologies. That item of a tap or cap that seals is the item that I am talking about. That someone has the patent process started typically means that they have successfully developed an item that is adequate to make the idea work.

And depending on the wording on the patent application, other items that are developed that do the same thing but are different enough to not be considered the same as the original patent may also apply for a patent. The history of Maple Syrup is full of patents that are very similar to other items that are patented but different enough to receive it's own patent. For example the raised flue vs. the drop flue or the different float control mechanisms.

I assumed that the patent process mentioned above is for an item that was developed by or for Dr. Tim to complete the research that the paper was written about. I also assumed that the item was adequate otherwise how was how did Dr. Tim collect data that was responsible enough to warrant a paper.

I guess the application for patent could just be for the idea of collecting sap from saplings.

[fred]

no need to apologize, i was just stating. abby van da berg has been a big part in this with tim. from what she said the seal around the sapling was not tight enough and every sapling was a different size. unlike the drill bit for a commercial spile a cup or ring will be a huge challenge

[needmoremaples]

I'm buying a woods that is pretty dense with maple trees too small to tap yet. 600 taps in total not including the small trees. I've thought about the idea in the past and I believe if you can figure the cap you got a way to produce it. Hope it's not the patented way or set up your own patent. Could make some money! I close on my woods in 2 weeks, need to set up routes and figure out if I'm doing lines or buckets. Sounds like a good time to do some fall tapping for experiment.

[DrTimPerkins]

Apologies for the delay...I've been away for the past 2 1/2 weeks.

The US patent issued in September 2019. https://patents.google.com/patent/US10412906B2 It covers the devices, systems and methods of use. The patent application is still under review in other countries.

We have been conducting further cooperative research the past few years with CDL on improved cap designs.

No further information is available, and no product (sap cap) is yet available. With apologies upfront, I am unable to answer further questions (so don't bother calling, emailing, or posting questions here). However for fun, take a look at the photos below. Top photo is at the end of the summer following our first harvest using this method. We did work at that site for another 3-4 yrs, then we moved on to doing some work in the woods in regenerating stands. The bottom photo is that same original site this fall.

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