Re doing a gravity system on a budget

[Parker]

I will be helping a friend of mine redo a gravity system that he retrofitted a very small vac. pump to without much luck last year. Here are some of the basics,,the run has around 450 taps on it spread over a large area. the pump used last year was a surge rv-4,?,,,it looks like a VERY small piston pump much smaller than a sp-11. the main line is around 1500' of 3/4" then 300' of 1/2" to the end,,,there are sevral lateral mainlines that are 1/2" and are 80' or less in length with 50-75 taps on them. there is one 1/2" lateral mainline that is 400' long with 100 taps on it. All of the lateral mainlines have very good slope on them,, the mainline to the that runs to the tank is fairly flat in spots.
The system was retubed 2 years ago, there are many spots where the tubing has considrabel sags or runs flat. Bob would like to maximize production without ripping the whole system down and redoing it,,I think that is possibel, but want to make sure the improvements I have in mind will make a major diffrance in production.
My plan is to run a 3/4" conductor line the the end of the existing system. Build boosters at each lateral mainline entrance. these boosters will have a valve and a gauge on them. At the spot where the 400' long lateral 1/2" mainline starts off the conductor line I was thinking of running another 1/2" dry line above it to carry vacuum(was thinking it a small distance and a small # of taps) he still has 2 rolls of 1/2" and wants to use them up.
We will go over the existing 3/4" main and grade+get the sags out.
I think that pump is way too small but do not have any specs. on it,,I would lean towards a larger pump.
Like I said before I want to make sure that these improvements will make a big diffrance befor we spend the time and$ on them. I am a littel concerned about useing the 1/2" but it is on small runs with not too many taps with good slope. Suggestions appricated

[Parker]

Does anyone that has 1/2" tubing up on vacuum get 1/2 gallon a tap on a good year?

[Pete33Vt]

Sounds like you should pick up quite a bit. The only thing that worries me is the 1/2". I am redoing my uncles sugar bush and removing all of the 1/2 and going to 3/4. The runs that are only 80' long shouldn't be to bad, especially if you run a dry line. I would get rid of the 400' run and go to 3/4, you could always leave the 1/2 and use that for the dry line on that section. Just make sure you plug all the holes.And you are right the pump sounds like it has a lot to be desired but it should work. All I would wantto find out is what the pump is rated for and can it do it. But you should gain considerablely. Just my thoughts.

[brookledge]

Parker the only thing I would do with the 1/2 " is use it in place of running a long length of 5/16. I would think up to 50 would be good on a 1/2" line
without a dry line.
You can always check the existing lines with a vacuum gauge during next season to see if your vacuum is reaching out to the ends. You may find that it's getting out to the ends and you don't need to replace the main lines.
Keith

[maplecrest]

after reading all the situation over the first thing that comes to mind. is that pump a 1/3 hp two cylinder pump that sets on a tank that was bought at bascoms? if it is i could never get that pump to hold very good vac. as for 1/2 for dry lines 1/2 does not transfer vac very well. the most important thing my dry line does is run sap in a nailing situation first thing in the morning when too much volume for wet line. or if wet line has not thawed out yet. i do not see the sap running down the 1/2 inch very well and tranfering vacuum. i use 1/2 at the end of long main lines or as bookledge stated branch lines for long 5/16 lines. i do have a road side line with 100 taps on it but is on a sap ladder with limited volume so i never changed it to 3/4. i would push for a different pump. i have a model 73 delaval, 1 hp that i am thinking of selling if thinking of a different pump.

[Parker]

Whitteled out a hole in the puckerbrush and whip-its up at bobs to run the new mainline,,got both wires up and the wet line almost all tied on,(1000')anchored the end of the mainline to the corner of the sugarhouse,,,was thinking afterwards that that might not be such a good idea,,if a big moose ever got tangeled up in the wire it would probably pull the place over........

[Parker]

Got the dry line in place ,,pulled the end lateral mainline up thru the ravine (steep) with its wire-just couldent seem to go with the existing wet line tied into the system-its not straight enough and the wire is grown into trees,ect.,think ill try try to use it as a lateral mainline in spots,,,,

[Parker]

Trying to post a pic of the vac. pump

[Sugarmaker]

Parker,
Sounds you have a woods fighting you! Hope you win! ;)

Hows that picture coming? Dennis helped me to get this down so that loading pictures finally works well.

Regards,
Chris

[Parker]

The instalation is comming well,,it is pleasing to the eye,,,the pics on the other hand,,,,,,still need to work on that...I am better in the woods.....

[Parker]

Back at Bobs today and tommrow-thank god the snow has setteled to nearly nothing!!All the mainline is run (laterals too) will be building and installing boosters tommrow,,,looks nice

[sweetwoodmaple]

Parker - If you friend is in need of a pump, I have a 3/4 hp 5 cfm flooded lab pump that I used last year. I just put new bearings and seals in it. It runs a little warm, but is fine. It has a small oil separator on the exhaust, so you can salvage some of the oil.

As long as I can get my Delaval 75 working, he can borrow this one as long as he wants. Just pay for the shipping. (probably weights 30 lbs)

[Parker]

That is a very nice offer,,how many " of mercury did your pump pull?

[sweetwoodmaple]

I had 335 taps two years ago (skipped last year) and had quite a few leaks including some very leaky spiles. So, I was only able to get about 13".

As the spiles started to freeze a little, I believe the pump would pull 25" or better.

I was thinking he could run the two pumps in parallel for now.

[Parker]

Started building the boosters yesterday ( in the sugarhouse as it was pouring outside) got all the mains up in place-ready to wiretie,,all the sags out,,ran a litttel more wire and mainline at the end of the system and picked up another 50 taps? got a bunch of loose ends taken care of,,thinking we can get to boosters in in one day,,,6 of them-3 are going to be servicing 2 lateral mainlines,,boosters are going to have gauges and valves on them for instant isolation of leaks!!!!! looking forward to seeing how a system like this will work,,,,,it is built how I wish all my systems were built,,,lots of mainline/dryline,,,lateral mainlines can all be isolated at the boosters on the conductor line,,

[royalmaple]

Parker-

Does your buddy have a camera or take yours over there. I should have showed you the setting to make the pictures smaller on your camera. I'd like to see the set up. Sounds cocker.

Another Rowe Show Piece. Keep up the good work.

[maplecrest]

parker, after you make or solve all the mistakes in his woods. putting your togather will be easy

[Parker]

The problem with a lot of the set ups I have is they are comprimises between what I know SHOULD be done and what I could AFFORD to do,,,,,like in Hill I have a conductor line (wet/dry) with about 50 saddels in my wet line (250-300 taps),,,mabey more....long flat run,,,,about 1500 feet long ,,then a booster with 1 3/4" lateral mainline that goes 50 feet and splits into 2 3/4" lateral mainlines that each pick up about 250 taps,,,,the conductor line goes another 300 feet to the last booster where there are 2 3/4" lines that each pick up 150 or so,,,,,,basically the wet line is filled with saddels all the way from the releaser to the last booster 2000' away,,,,,BAD,BAD,BAD,,,,very hard to check for leaks without walking a LONG way,,prettty sure I get a bunch of positive pressure in the flat section on the saddel entrances during a good run,,I have run the wire to add a 1"wet line up thru,,then I want to build a bunch of boosters and cut the present wet lines into sections that enter the wet line at the boosters,,alowing for eaiser detection of leaks,,ect. but its time and money
Thanks for the compliment Matt,,I dont think it will be a show piece butI know it will work very well,,,