Permeate vs vinegar 24 hr soak

[toquin]

Looks like we have a day off, was wondering what works better on niter build up? First year with permeate.

[Urban Sugarmaker]

I find hot permeate for 24 hours works well but in the syrup pan I usually need to use vinegar. You could mix vinegar with the permeate and just bring to a boil then shut down. Pressure washer takes it from there.

[Bruce L]

I found distillate from the steam away,( should be same thing) worked well for syrup pan,had to add vinegar for flue pan

[VT_K9]

I mix vinegar and permeate, heat it, let it soak overnight, and flush it with more permeate. During the flush I would warm the pans up. This worked well for us.

Mike

[mol1jb]

Last year we did vinegar with tap water to soak the pans. This year with RO we use permeat with vinegar and that works much better.

[fruitguy]

I mix vinegar and permeate, heat it, let it soak overnight, and flush it with more permeate. During the flush I would warm the pans up. This worked well for us.

Mike

This may be a dumb question, but what is permeate? This weekend I will be cleaning my pan and i tried looking up what permeate is, but did not find anything. Not sure if it is a process or a product.

Thanks,
James

[GeneralStark]

Permeate is the pure water produced from processing sap through a reverse osmosis machine. It is great for cleaning as it has no mineral content. That said I find vinegar soaking ro be a better solution for syrup pan cleaning.

[fruitguy]

Thanks for the information

[DRoseum]

I mix vinegar and permeate, heat it, let it soak overnight, and flush it with more permeate. During the flush I would warm the pans up. This worked well for us.


This is exactly what I do as well for my flat pans. Works VERY well. I have a video for it here:
https://youtu.be/GrDxTZQcJok
And more info here:
https://www.sugartree.run/2019/03/end-of-season-equipment-cleaning.html

[Rosser's Ridge]

Now that I'm finally indoors, I need to learn this process.
1) After final draw of season, do you use permeate/vinegar solution to flush out pans while still warm/hot? Or let rig cool, drain, rinse & refill with solution?
2) Do you ever warm/boil solution during this process other than at rinsing?
3) what is an ideal vinegar concentrate? ratio or PH

[maple flats]

My method is to let the pans cool upon shut down. A couple of hours later I could drain the pan and add vinegar, but since I'm long gone by then, I drain and add white vinegar in the morning. My syrup pan is 3x3 and I only use 1 gal vinegar. I then use a weed burner torch to warm it from under the pan, heating it until a steam like vapor starts to come off it (the temp is likely just above luke warm). I then let it set for an hour or so. Then I use a gentle brush to check if all sugarsand has loosened. If yes, I drain, then I flush the pan by spraying hot permeate on all parts of the pan, drain and repeate 3-4 times. If the sugar sand is not all loose I either use a gentle scrub pad or I repeat the heat and wait cycle. It all depends on how much sugar sand is still stuck.
My ratio is 100% vinegar, no permeate. Many however do use a 50/50 ratio. I just never tried adding permeate with the vinegar.
When I'm spraying after the sugar sand is loose, I pump permeate thru my tankless water heater and using a hose spray nozzle I spray the pan with the permeate at about 120-130F. If I shut the spray off I turn the pump off, one time I forgot and the exploding hose sounded like a shotgun shot blast.

[Rosser's Ridge]

Awsome description. Thanks. Just what I was looking for. Guess I'll have to get hot water in the shanty next! Have you tried this mid season or too much risk of residue tainting syrup?

[maple flats]

I repeat every time the boil starts to show it is needed. I also use a nylon spatula and drag it along the bottom, if there is any drag on the spatula it's getting to be time to clean the pan.
The need is not the same, some years I can go 4-7 days but that is rare indeed, other years it needs to be done every day. Sometimes I even need to shut down after 4-5 hrs boil and clean it then. If you can reverse the flow, that can help. The sugar sand will start to build up first in the channel nearest the draw off, if you reverse the flow, that will extend the time before you need to clean. At the end of a boil, always test the bottom using the spatula test, if you feel a drag, plan to clean the pan before your next boil.

[maple flats]

My first hot water was heated on a turkey fryer pot and burner, then I tried a small tankless heater from Sportsman's Guide. That heated well, but not as fast as I wanted, after 3 years or so on the little one I got 2 sizes bigger. The little one did just over 1 gal/minute to about 110F, my current one does 3.1 gpm to about the same temp, If I slow the flow just slightly, it can get to 130F.