Tips For A Newbie

[NHLonghorn]

Hello All:

Have 11 trees tapped, hoping to do my first boil this weekend...would appreciate any advice relative to my approach as this is my first attempt and I want to make sure I enjoy it enough to invest $ and time into it in the future...I own 15 acres, have been cleaning it up for firewood and milling, leaving the maples and oaks mostly. I've tapped 11 maples close enough to the house as a start, unsure how many I have total on the property worth tapping as the property was heavily wooded when we bought it 5 years ago and many of the remaining maples are tall and skinny, under 12 inches in diameter as recommended for tapping. My guess, I'll have 20-30 to tap, should I continue. Thus, while tempted to spend 3-400 on a barrel evaporator, I'm going to stick with the turkey fryer I own, a nice deep fryer pan as a wider base, and a stainless pot on a rack over to warm. The base pan is 14 inches in diameter, the stainless pot about 10. How high should I fill the base pan? I have read that those who've used turkey fryers in the past, along with the tall aluminum pots that come with them, have stated they overfilled and took too long to bring to a boil, etc. Also, it would seem I do not need to fire up the fryer to full throttle...open to any and all tips and suggestions. I did buy a digital thermometer for the final cook off on the stove to get to 219 or 7 degrees over water boil temp, which I will double check here. I also plan to use the warm water tub for the propane tank trick. ;)

Thanks!

Jon

[SmellsLikeSyrupNH]

Try and have a 2 pan setup, 1 pan to do the boiling and a 2nd (pan or even a 5 gallon bucket) elevated to feed it as its evaporating. The feed bucket you'll have to put some sort of valve on it so that it will drip in and feed the boiling pan. You want to keep the sap in the boiling pan shallow so that it it can boil easier for maximum efficiency. You will want to get the dripping to happen at the same rate as the boil off so that you can keep a constant level and no risk of burning the pan and syrup.

Good luck!

[DRoseum]

You will be better off boiling smaller amounts in batches and dumping each batch into a 2nd pot once it gets low in you main pot. For example, let's say you collect 20 gallons of sap. Boil 2 gallons in your main pot (about 6 inches) down to less than 0.5 inches in your pot (less than a quart left) and dump it into a 2nd pot. Repeat with another 2 gallons of sap 9 more times and keep dumping the boiled down amount (less than a quart) into the same 2nd pot. Then you will have a little less than 2 gallons collected into the 2nd pot which has all been boiled the same amount. You can then boil that down to finish syrup, which should yield you about 0.4 gallons of syrup (assuming 50:1 ratio).

There are 2 major benefits to the batch-combine-batch approach
1. Much quicker and less fuel consumption because your steaming surface area to total volume of sap to be heated (BTUs needed) is much larger when keeping the pot volume lower.
2. You will make much nicer, lighter, looking syrup. By continuing to add sap to the pot without removing what has cooked down means you are overcooking the sugar molecules that were in there from the beginning. This would make very dark or even burnt tasting syrup.

I have some good information on DIY/hobby sugaring on my blog along with videos, etc. Check out the DIY sugaring section to start:

https://www.sugartree.run/p/sugaring-diy.html

[wobbletop]

I have some good information on DIY/hobby sugaring on my blog along with videos, etc. Check out the DIY sugaring section to start:

https://www.sugartree.run/p/sugaring-diy.html

That typeface on your website is unreadable.

[DRoseum]

Thanks for the feedback. I updated it.

[Cedar Eater]

There's plenty of time to get fancy later. Put two gallons of sap into your pot and bring it to a boil. Measure the depth with a wooden spoon and the amount of time that it takes to boil away half of that while preheating the next gallon in a pan on your stove. Add the preheated gallon when you get to the halfway point and set a timer for that amount of time. Preheat the next gallon while that one's boiling away and the timer is timing down. When you get to the tenth gallon, boil the pot down to 1". Bring it inside and pour it into a saucepan. Boil it down to syrup. Expect a little less than a quart and be happy if you get a full quart. Enjoy the best tasting syrup you ever sampled.

[DRoseum]

Apologies, but I very respectfully disagree with continuing to add sap to the pot. This leads to significantly over cooking the sugar that was part of the earlier batches. Remember, boiling to make syrup isn't just evaporating the water, its caramelizing the sugar molecules in it as well. Even continuous flow evaporators are drawing off continuously as well as having fresh sap added, but since they use divided pans, the fresh sap is never really mixing with anything that is close to becoming syrup because as it boils longer it moves further thru the continuous flow pans and gets removed at the end. Sap in = steam off + syrup drawn off. Even in a batch process you want to emulate this process.

You really want to boil it down in batches, combining all those in a single pot and then boil that down to syrup.

[NHLonghorn]

Cooking today, will use the 2 gallon cook-off method as it does make sense....will report how it all turns out. Thanks again, fingers crossed!

[RileySugarbush]

Either way works. I’ve made fantastic tasting dark syrup with a single batch over 8-10 hours.

[Big_Eddy]

Apologies, but I very respectfully disagree with continuing to add sap to the pot. This leads to significantly over cooking the sugar that was part of the earlier batches. Remember, boiling to make syrup isn't just evaporating the water, its caramelizing the sugar molecules in it as well. Even continuous flow evaporators are drawing off continuously as well as having fresh sap added, but since they use divided pans, the fresh sap is never really mixing with anything that is close to becoming syrup because as it boils longer it moves further thru the continuous flow pans and gets removed at the end. Sap in = steam off + syrup drawn off. Even in a batch process you want to emulate this process.

You really want to boil it down in batches, combining all those in a single pot and then boil that down to syrup.

OP - disregard the comments above - the poster has a misunderstanding of the chemical changes that take place while sap is boiling. You will not "overcook your sugar" by boiling sap down to syrup.
The most efficient method for batch boiling (both in terms of fuel and effort) with a turkey fryer is to establish a strong boil with 1-2" of sap in the pot, then adjust the incoming flow rate as close as possible to the rate at which steam is driven off. One important thing with a turkey fryer is to ensure that the flames are not licking up the sides of the pot above the sap level, causing a scorch line at the sap surface. Any scorching can affect the taste of the final product.

[wobbletop]

Thanks for the feedback. I updated it.

Much better. Thank you!

[DRoseum]

OP - disregard the comments above - the poster has a misunderstanding of the chemical changes that take place while sap is boiling. You will not "overcook your sugar" by boiling sap down to syrup.


I respectfully disagree. What am I not understanding? Making syrup is steaming off water and caramelizing the sugar. By exposing a sugar molecule to prolonged heat you will continue to caramelize it further, creating much darker syrup (https://www.scienceabc.com/pure-sciences/sugar-turn-brown-melted-caramelization-maillard-reaction.html). I didn't say you would overcook the sugar molecules by creating syrup, I said that by adding more unboiled sap to the pot would result in the sugar molecules that were in the pot from the beginning to be cooked much longer than necessary and subject to further caramelization (e.g. darker syrup). Just like all things you "cook" it's a function of time and temperature. The longer you expose any substance to a given temperature, it will continue to "cook" and potentially be "overcooked". If you don't believe me, keep cooking syrup past finish temp/density and see what happens. By adding more sap to an existing batch boil, you are essentially doing the same thing, just on a diluted basis.

Or you could try both approaches and see the clear difference in color.

Bottom line is you want to emulate the continuous flow method:
19746

[jrm]

Apologies, but I very respectfully disagree with continuing to add sap to the pot. This leads to significantly over cooking the sugar that was part of the earlier batches. Remember, boiling to make syrup isn't just evaporating the water, its caramelizing the sugar molecules in it as well. Even continuous flow evaporators are drawing off continuously as well as having fresh sap added, but since they use divided pans, the fresh sap is never really mixing with anything that is close to becoming syrup because as it boils longer it moves further thru the continuous flow pans and gets removed at the end. Sap in = steam off + syrup drawn off. Even in a batch process you want to emulate this process.

You really want to boil it down in batches, combining all those in a single pot and then boil that down to syrup.
As a backyard hobbyist I have always boiled in batch mode. Until this year, I've used the ladle method for adding new sap to my boiling pans -- the first years it was cold sap, in the last couple, I found a way to preheat. This year, I modified my pre-heat pan using a step-bit and added a hole to which I added a bulkhead fitting plus ball valve in order to create a drip system. (And, this year as well as last, I preheated on my stove, then added to my preheat pan at my evaporator, then added to the boiling pans.)

I've had two boils this year, each in the 6-7 hour range (not great efficiency), using this method and my syrup is light amber (I don't know the correct new terms) and lighter tasting. In past years, I've had both light and dark syrup.

[Big_Eddy]

I respectfully disagree. What am I not understanding? Making syrup is steaming off water and caramelizing the sugar. By exposing a sugar molecule to prolonged heat you will continue to caramelize it further, creating much darker syrup. I didn't say you would overcook the sugar molecules by creating syrup, I said that by adding more unboiled sap to the pot would result in the sugar molecules that were in the pot from the beginning to be cooked much longer than necessary and subject to further caramelization (e.g. darker syrup). Just like all things you "cook" it's a function of time and temperature. The longer you expose any substance to a given temperature, it will continue to "cook" and potentially be "overcooked". If you don't believe me, keep cooking syrup past finish temp/density and see what happens. By adding more sap to an existing batch boil, you are essentially doing the same thing, just on a diluted basis.

Or you could try both approaches and see the clear difference in color.

Bottom line is you want to emulate the continuous flow method:
19746
Dan - I can assure you I've tried both approaches (and many others) over the years. I guarantee if the OP was to start a boil first thing in the morning and he continues to add sap to the same pot for >24hrs, concentrating it more and more until finally he has the equivalent of > 100 gallons of sap in the one pot, he is not going to cause any sugar molecules "to be cooked much longer than necessary". We are not talking about ever going past finished density - only to syrup.

I recommend you read through some of the many posts on the topic going back several years, and you will learn that almost all of the caramalization and other chemical changes occur in the late stages of boiling, as the syrup approaches final density. What matters most for colour development is the amount of time that the syrup spends boiling at a concentration just below finished syrup. Where you get additional darkening is when you continue to boil almost syrup, or allow it to cool and reheat "nearup" - which is what you are suggesting with your boil - combine - boil - combine recommendation.

A well designed evaporator (continuous flow) does the bulk of the evaporation in the flue pans at low sugar concentrations (with no caramalization at all occurring), and minimizes the amount of time that the syrup spends in the syrup pan. For instance - a typical 2x6 evaporator has almost 40x as much surface area in the flue pan as the syrup pan, yet passes "almost clear" sap between the two.


All that said - if you took a poll on this site - I'd wager you'd get a pretty even split between those who prefer light syrup, and those who prefer syrup with good colour.
Either way - sap + heat = syrup, and syrup you made yourself will taste better than any syrup made by another!

[Galena]

*munching popcorn* this is fun! Wondering when Dr Tim will make an appearance and set DRoseum straight. Unless of course DRoseum is an even more highly renowned authority on sugaring than Dr Tim...could happen I suppose ;-)

[Cedar Eater]

Apologies, but I very respectfully disagree with continuing to add sap to the pot. This leads to significantly over cooking the sugar that was part of the earlier batches. Remember, boiling to make syrup isn't just evaporating the water, its caramelizing the sugar molecules in it as well. Even continuous flow evaporators are drawing off continuously as well as having fresh sap added, but since they use divided pans, the fresh sap is never really mixing with anything that is close to becoming syrup because as it boils longer it moves further thru the continuous flow pans and gets removed at the end. Sap in = steam off + syrup drawn off. Even in a batch process you want to emulate this process.

You really want to boil it down in batches, combining all those in a single pot and then boil that down to syrup.

The guy only has eleven trees tapped and I told him to make one batch from 10 gallons and get a taste of what his trees are producing. You are way out in left field with your method. First of all, you want carmelization, because that is essential to the flavor. Secondly, sucrose (the main sugar of early season sap) carmelizes at a high temperature. That is one of the reasons that early sap usually produces lighter batches, fewer molecules get carmelized. None of them get "significantly overcooked". Thirdly, when the sucrose breaks down to glucose + fructose due to bacterial action in the later season, those sugars carmelize at lower temperatures and produce darker syrup, but that is a good thing because many people prefer to have some variety in their choice of syrups and many others prefer the richer flavor of darker syrup. If someone wants to make their syrup lighter in the future, the technique you mentioned will do that, but there is nothing "wrong" with not doing that. It's simply a matter of personal preference and there is more than just your way of making great tasting syrup. The method I gave the newbie will produce a great result without having to go through a lot of unnecessary steps or having to watch the boil too closely while he gets his feet wet.

[DRoseum]

Ok - agreed to disagree. I am very familiar with flu pans and how a continuous flow system works. And we are talking about how to do a batch process to best emulate the principles of the continuous flow system. Point is at the molecular level you are overheating what started in your pot first. A sugar molecule can only take so much heat.

https://www.scienceabc.com/pure-sciences/sugar-turn-brown-melted-caramelization-maillard-reaction.html

You wouldn't recommend continuing to run new sap into your continuous flow pan without drawing off the finished syrup, would you? If you just let sap keep flowing in eventually you would have syrup in the entire evaporator. That's what you are saying to do, and at the molecular level you are heating the initial sap for longer than necessary, furthering the caramelization more than necessary.
19747

[DRoseum]

If someone wants to make their syrup lighter in the future, the technique you mentioned will do that, but there is nothing "wrong" with not doing that. It's simply a matter of personal preference and there is more than just your way of making great tasting syrup. The method I gave the newbie will produce a great result

Well said - its preference - some want light and some want dark.

[Cedar Eater]

we are talking about how to do a batch process to best emulate the principles of the continuous flow system.

I disagree. We're helping a newbie get his first batch boiled without indoctrinating him on how to make syrup according to our personal preference. At least we should be.


Point is at the molecular level you are overheating what started in your pot first.

Again I disagree. There is no "overheating" involved until the whole batch gets above 67 (some would say higher) Brix.


You wouldn't recommend continuing to run new sap into your continuous flow pan without drawing off the finished syrup, would you?

I wouldn't recommend that a newbie start with a continuous flow pan. I can't think of a better way to suck half the fun out of getting started making syrup.


If you just let sap keep flowing in eventually you would have syrup in the entire evaporator. That's what you are saying to do, and at the molecular level you are heating the initial sap for longer than necessary, furthering the caramelization more than necessary.


I get that you don't like syrup that is rich and mapley and that's fine, but a newbie has plenty enough on his plate without worrying about emulating a continuous flow pan to make light delicate butterscotchy syrup. I did a 105 gallon batch by adding cold gallons to a batch boil at about 4 gph. It was great syrup. It was dark and complex with notes of vanilla, chocolate, butterscotch, and molasses. It was great on/in anything that I used it for. But no, I wouldn't recommend for a newbie with 11 trees to wait until he had 105 gallons of sap and boil it for over 25 continuous hours. That would be a ridiculous thing for a newbie to do. Almost as ridiculous as your microbatch process. I have, in the past, advised people who specifically asked how to get lighter batches to boil ten gallons down to one and store the gallons multiple times and then boil all the one gallons together down to finished syrup. I've done that with 50 gallon and 100 gallon batches. Both made great lighter colored syrup. But so does boiling ten gallons right down to one quart by adding a gallon at a time to a turkey fryer, when it's early season sap.

[Big_Eddy]

OP
If you have any further questions, there are a number very experienced members here with a wealth of knowledge to share. Ask away.

[DRoseum]

Let's keep it professional and respectful. No need for personal attacks or anything like that. There are different methods, leading to different results and it's all about preference. I was simply trying to present an alternate method.

Too many things in life to stress over, and maple syrup isn't one of them; its something to enjoy!

Happy sugaring everyone. Enjoy what you make, how you make it, and who you make it with.

[goose52]

i enjoyed reading the debate and i liked droseum's last post. i try to be efficient when sugaring with the setup i have. not going to spend a fortune to "improve" my syrup. i produce a pretty dark syrup cuz i batch boil for 3 days before i filter n bottle. tastes great but will never win any prizes. this year i'm going to take out 5 gal of semi-syrup each morning and start with fresh sap. then i'll pour the buckets back in when i finish and see what we think of the resulting lighter (i hope) syrup. idk if i will get enough of the nitre out to really lighten up the final product. there is a prejudice against dark syrup and when we gift it i'm sure the giftees are a lil suspect.

[Galena]

The bias of light syrup over dark is ridiculous imnsho. My light syrup is nice enough if you like early-season marshmallow/vanilla, but it's not that memorable. My mid-season stuff is amber and a good maple flavour, it's what I give away. But I keep batch 6 on cause that's when the flavour is not only really strong maple but also cool notes like molasses, coffee, chocolate even. And my eldest brother loves super-late season black syrup if I get any.

[DrTimPerkins]

Either way will work. There are advantages and disadvantages either way. Batching will probably result in modestly lighter syrup and perhaps be slightly more energy efficient (depending on how it is done).

As for the "maple" flavor. Technically that is most pronounced in moderately-light syrup. Darker syrup has a much more complex and stronger flavor profile, but the true "maple" flavor is overwhelmed/masked by the variety and high quantities of other flavor compounds present. That is not a judgement on "goodness"...that all comes down to personal preference.

If you boil with a turkey fryer, run the propane supply at a rate needed for a good boil, but no more than that. Shielding the fryer from wind will increase the efficiency greatly. Either way, expect to burn through a good deal of propane.

[jrm]

The bias of light syrup over dark is ridiculous imnsho. My light syrup is nice enough if you like early-season marshmallow/vanilla, but it's not that memorable. My mid-season stuff is amber and a good maple flavour, it's what I give away. But I keep batch 6 on cause that's when the flavour is not only really strong maple but also cool notes like molasses, coffee, chocolate even. And my eldest brother loves super-late season black syrup if I get any.

Both my batches so far are high in vanilla (and as you write it, marshmallow flavors.) I definitely prefer the more robust flavors. I'm hoping my trees flow long enough to get some of that this season, too. All that said, I think it is pretty cool to see how the syrup colors and flavors change, both boil to boil (where is the season), as well as year to year for me.

[NHLonghorn]

Well, I have figured a few things out...boiling sap is time consuming, but I was able to get a lot of peripheral work done while monitoring my set up...I did the 2 gallon batch method and was pleased with the results, out of 4 gallons and 2 days of daytime boiling, produced half a mason jar of delicious syrup...licked all residual syrup on all implements, once cooled, LOL. Good stuff, hope to produce more sap next year as I clean out my woods. The entire process made sense to me and once I combined both 2 gallon batches into one for final cook off, it was a pretty swift process. Digital thermometer was a must. I will say, some syrup was spilled, wasted using cheesecloth and coffee filters, so surely there is a better way of filtering the final batch of sweetness...looking forward to learning more. Thanks to all who chimed in, much appreciated, overall a fun endeavor and I look forward to improving my methods next year...

[Galena]

Coffee filters, great idea. I go through tons of the disposable paper ones, clip them onto canning funnels with wooden clothespins. But using cheesecloth? Great for jelly, but not syrup!!!! The weave is far too loose to catch nitre.

[FanshaweGirl]

I have 20 taps in sugar maples. Some days are slow, other days are crazy! Pulled 40 gallons of sap today! :S

I run two propane turkey fryers. I have tried out the method of using aluminum roasting pans sitting on top of the pots, dripping in from a pin hole. This is working perfectly! I keep a few inches boiling in the pot and just let it keep going.

When I'm swamped, like I am right now, I put one pot outside on an induction burner, and load the stove indoors. These I just keep adding to as necessary.

Today I tried out the coffee percolator method for bottling, and it worked great! I have my orlon cone filter, with 7 pre-filters, sitting on top of the percolator. Go from pot on stove, into the filter, which runs into the pre-heated percolator, and then I fill the jars. Much cleaner and quicker than filling jars with funnels and a ladle. So far the syrup looks to be very clean too.

I am seriously considering the RO Bucket to cut down on boiling time. Price is a little steep, considering with shipping and exchange to Canadian I'm looking at nearly $500 for it.

*I personally prefer darker syrup.

[wobbletop]

You can create your own RO system for less and expand as necessary. Dropping the boil time by half is certainly a bonus, but there is additional maintenance with RO (cleaning, rinsing, storing, etc). I have 20 taps on bags.

This is the website I use for a resource:
https://sites.google.com/view/mattatuckmadnessmaplesyrup

[Trapper2]

Either way will work. There are advantages and disadvantages either way. Batching will probably result in modestly lighter syrup and perhaps be slightly more energy efficient (depending on how it is done).

As for the "maple" flavor. Technically that is most pronounced in moderately-light syrup. Darker syrup has a much more complex and stronger flavor profile, but the true "maple" flavor is overwhelmed/masked by the variety and high quantities of other flavor compounds present. That is not a judgement on "goodness"...that all comes down to personal preference.

If you boil with a turkey fryer, run the propane supply at a rate needed for a good boil, but no more than that. Shielding the fryer from wind will increase the efficiency greatly. Either way, expect to burn through a good deal of propane.
Thanks Dr Tim for weighing in. For awhile I thought I was crazy for batch boiling for the past 40 years. I will now be able to sleep tonight.

[NHLonghorn]

198441984519846

Figured I'd attach a few pics of my set up...overall, I liked the idea and practice of boiling one 2 gallon batch down, transferring it to my finishing pot to await the 2nd batch, cooked off the next day...found that I did not use a full propane tank, took notes for next year, found that it took about 5-6 hours for each batch outside, and got a lot of peripheral work done while keeping an eye. It went much quicker and I appreciate the tips about finishing the sap off inside. The digital thermometer was a blessing as it gave a nice accurate reading vs a regular meat or candy thermometer. My 4 gallons produced about 16 oz of what I consider to be very tasty syrup, it seems a little bit runny in the jar vs other syrup so maybe I took it off a bit early. I did find that the cheesecloth seemed a bit thick, (saw someone use it online), and like when I used to make lard from my pig fat, coffee filters seem to clog quickly, so will need to continue to work on that final aspect of filtering. Overall, a fun experience, rewarding, and will do it again. My investment into pans, etc depends on how many other maples I identify on the property as I clear into the back. There's nothing like not having to re-invent the wheel and having sage advice, albeit differing opinions to wade thru so as to limit newbie mistakes. Thanks all, I'm enjoying the topics in the forum...Jon

[tpathoulas]

I'm curious about the coffee percolator. I have been looking at trying this method for bottling. Couple of questions.
How hot does it get? I do not want to boil my syrup just before bottling.
How warm is the maintain temp? Looking on the box and online, there is not a lot of info regarding these questions.
Thanks

[highlandcattle]

We have used the coffe urns for several years. Even when we had our 500 tap farm. Temp just keeps it hot enough to bottle. Won't boil it. Makes bottling nice and easy

[FanshaweGirl]

I bought an old percolator from someone who posted in a local Facebook market. $20 for a 36 cup percolator. Old enough to be that avocado green that was so popular in the 70's.

It heats up to, and maintains, 175 F. I bottle fast enough that the syrup doesn't cool down below bottling temp. I really like the simple, clean method of not having to ladle syrup into jars. Whole pot gets poured into the cone filter, which pours into the percolator, and then I just bottle it from there.

[Galena]

I was thinking of going that route too with percolator, couldn't find one 2nd hand though and too cheap to fork out for one new.

[FanshaweGirl]

I had wanted to get one last year, but was done spending money on this hobby. One just happened to come up days before I tapped.

Value Village, Goodwill, etc are good places to peruse for equipment. Cheap stainless steel pots too.

[paulslund]

I've started omitting any filtering. I just got too tired of it... so now when I finish a batch, I filter the nearup before finishing and when the batch is finished it sits in the fridge for about a week.. Everything settles nicely on the bottom of the pot (better if you can find a nice tall and narrow pot. Then I just decant all the clear stuff in order to bottle all of it and freeze them..although of course you could heat it for proper bottling.. but frankly it doesn't last long enough after thawed for it to go bad..not the way I eat the stuff! LOL