Poor man's vacuum

[buxtonboiler]

Recently purchased a 12v marine diaphragm pump from Amazon for 16 bucks. I hooked it up to my 5/16 tubing and it dumps directly into my 55 gallon barrel. So far it works great.

[maple flats]

That's great to hear.

[paulslund]

Interesting.. What's the flow rating on the pump?

[lew]

Do you have a vacuum gauge on the line. It would interesting to know how much vacuum you're getting.

[tombaisley]

I tried one, I hooked it up with a re circulation line and powered it with an old lap top power supply. Works great, I ordered another one to add to a second line.

[Stiets]

Recently purchased a 12v marine diaphragm pump from Amazon for 16 bucks. I hooked it up to my 5/16 tubing and it dumps directly into my 55 gallon barrel. So far it works great.

Which pump? Could you post a link? Thanks

[Dlee]

Well I tried one today on two of my 3/16 lines wow what a difference and its not even a good day for running can't wait to see what it does on a good day.

[Axle54]

Sounds interesting. Would you have a link to the pump to share. How many taps and length of tubing is it handleing?

[Dlee]

Got the pump on Amazon it is a Sailflo 12volt RV Marine pump I have it hooked up to one line with 22 tap and another with 21 I am guessing at the length of line but I would say in total about 500 ft.

[Axle54]

Is this the pump you have. I assume you attach tubing from your run into the inlet and then out to your tank.
How does this work if there is little to no sap flow because it is cold. Wouldn't burn up with no flow?
19801

Very neat idea just trying to figure how it works. It is not a vacuum pump but a diaphram water pump but i guess it pulls enough vacuum. I wonder how much? Is it quiet?

Link to pump

https://www.amazon.com/SAILFLO-Pressure-Diaphragm-Caravan-1-30GPM/dp/B074KKP42G/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_4?keywords=sailflo+12v+rv+pump&qid=1553271345&s=gateway&sr=8-4-fkmrnull

To similar priced at $17
https://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirect/picassoRedirect.html/ref=pa_sp_atf_aps_sr_pg1_2?ie=UTF8&adId=A008178312YLXFHBUDLBO&url=%2Fbayite-Pressure-Diaphragm-Priming-Sprayer%2Fdp%2FB01N75ZIXF%2Fref%3Dsr_1_fkmrnull_2_ sspa%3Fkeywords%3Dsailflo%2B12v%2Brv%2Bpump%26qid% 3D1553271345%26s%3Dgateway%26sr%3D8-2-fkmrnull-spons%26psc%3D1&qualifier=1553271344&id=5615862683338103&widgetName=sp_atf

[Biz]

I tried one of these cheap diaphragm pumps and didn't have good luck with it. With no flow, the vacuum is very low; with flow the vacuum was erratic. For 40 bucks more, the Shurflo 4008 is a much better buy IMO. But perhaps I should revisit them, maybe I was doing something wrong, cool that you were able to make it work!

Dave

[Cedar Eater]

I tried one of these cheap diaphragm pumps and didn't have good luck with it. With no flow, the vacuum is very low; with flow the vacuum was erratic. For 40 bucks more, the Shurflo 4008 is a much better buy IMO. But perhaps I should revisit them, maybe I was doing something wrong, cool that you were able to make it work!

Dave

A recirc line seems to make all the difference with the cheap two-diaphragm pumps. By keeping the diaphagms wet I could get a consistent 24" Hg with them.

[Dlee]

That is the pump that I have and I did run it for a day with the lines slowing running and it didn't seam to bother it wasn't even warm when I shut it off. Then when I heard about the recirculating line I put one on it so it is always drawing liquid through the pump. That evening when I went and collected the sap had almost stopped running so I decided to leave the pump out over night to see what it would produce overnight. The two lines with the pump on it had more than double what the other 4 lines produced and with the recirculating line you don't have to worry about the line freezing. There are others on here with way more experience than me this is where I got the idea. The pump is quiet and works great.

[small_operator]

How do you hook up your recirc line? Do you use a small diameter hose tee'd into your incoming sap line with the other end in your gathering tank?

[Dlee]

that's what I done

[paulslund]

How do you hook up your recirc line? Do you use a small diameter hose tee'd into your incoming sap line with the other end in your gathering tank?
Wouldn't that cut the vacuum pressure to the sap line in half?

[wmick]

Wouldn't that cut the vacuum pressure to the sap line in half?

Yes and no.... It might use up some of the flow capacity of your pump, but it actually improves the vacuum level, or helps maintain it.
These little diaphragm pumps only seem to generate a decent vacuum when they actually have some liquid running through them.
(I'm guessing the tiny check valves need some liquid to seal them off.)
If they run dry, (even for a few seconds), the vacuum level drops way down... (this can happen easily, depending on number of taps and sap-flow conditions)
The bypass/recirc line ensures that some liquid will always be coming.. to give that vacuum its needed boost, when the trees dont flood it.
A needle valve on the bypass line will allow you to fine tune it. if you want.

[paulslund]

Yes and no.... It might use up some of the flow capacity of your pump, but it actually improves the vacuum level, or helps maintain it.
These little diaphragm pumps only seem to generate a decent vacuum when they actually have some liquid running through them.
(I'm guessing the tiny check valves need some liquid to seal them off.)
If they run dry, (even for a few seconds), the vacuum level drops way down... (this can happen easily, depending on number of taps and sap-flow conditions)
The bypass/recirc line ensures that some liquid will always be coming.. to give that vacuum its needed boost, when the trees dont flood it.
A needle valve on the bypass line will allow you to fine tune it. if you want.

Interesting. Thanks for the response. I'll have to give that some thought! Sounds like a great way to get a budget vacuum system going...

[wmick]

Interesting. Thanks for the response. I'll have to give that some thought! Sounds like a great way to get a budget vacuum system going...

I sure don't regret it. I have about 90 taps at a friends bush, a couple miles from my house on 3/16" lines split on to 2 little 12v pumps. (not sure if I really needed 2 or not?) ... A decent truck battery will run those 2 pumps for at least 24 hours straight. With my work schedule I couldn't even think about collecting those buckets by hand. and I've found that the 3/16" system to outperform buckets, for sap per tap as well.

[Milton]

Can someone explain how to set one of these systems up? I'm completely new to tubing. How much slope is required. Thanks.

[bmbmkr]

Milton there's about a hundred threads on here for 12v diaphragm pumps, lots of photos. From solar with temp controllers to 110v and 12v marine batteries. It all depends on your budget and the layout of your woods and sugarhouse. I have used Everflo 3.3 gpm pumps for the last 3 years, this year I set up a 1/2" PVC manifold with threaded fittings, you can find 5/16 barb fittings with 1/2 threads on amazon. I had 5 laterals from 100 to 800' long feeding the manifold, once I got the squirrel chews fixed I was pulling 25" vacuum, on the best run this year I got 150 gallons of sap from those 60 trees. It's pretty simple plumbing and wiring. Half the fun is the research. Make sure you get a screen for keeping ice out of the fragile diaphragm.

[maple flats]

I suggest a spare diaphragm or 2 just in case, or even a spare pump. I only use a diaphragm pump on my hot water loop to feed my tankless water heater, and I have a spare diaphragm just in case.

[Lucky Dog]

What tubing would you use for one of these diaphragm pumps?
The tubing I'm finding says that it is good for natural vacuum. Would this type work?

[maple flats]

Any maple tubing for the line from tree to tree, then run that downhill to a manifold and then to the pump inlet. You can make a manifold out of 3/4" or larger maple tubing or even a length of PVC pipe. To attach to the manifold just use a saddle made for maple (I like the DSD saddles, but) most any for the diameter pipe you have for the manifold will work. Run an extra saddle and run a re-circulation line to keep the diaphragm wet. That can even have a needle valve to reduce the amount re-circulated.