3/16" Blocked

[CaptT820]

All-
I am having issues with my 3/16" tubing having some sort of flow problem in them.
All of my lines are 3/16" tubing, but I replaced the drops with 3/16" tubing and tees from 5/16" tubing and tees. Taps are all 5/16" to 3/16" lines now.
I have read that others seem to have issues with wood chips getting caught in the tees. Is this what other people are seeing? Just trying to figure out why I don't have adequate, or any flow, in places.

Thanks

[buckeye gold]

My guess is you have blocked tees and it is probably wood shavings. The only solution I know is where the flow is compromised cut off the tee and clean it or install a new one. I carry a small wire I run through the tee or if it get's bent I just put in a new one. This is why I like tapping when trees are flowing I can let them run a little before setting the tap.I also clean the hole with a twig. Best just bite the bullet and take care of it now.

[tgormley358]

I’m using more 3/16 this year on gravity like yourself I assume, and seeing some issues with flow also. I used 5/16 drops with the combo 5/16 - 3/16 tees. Generally it’s all running great. I have slope between 10 and 20’ on these lines that are 150-250’ long with 20 taps each. But yesterday I noticed the top half of one line with 20’ slope wasn’t running at all. Only the bottom 10 taps were running. Above that the 5/16 drops were all filled with sap stuck there not flowing into the lateral. I didn’t have any more combo tees so I replaced one in the middle of the line with a 3/16 tee, and immediately sap starting flowing real fast in the lateral, before re connecting the new tee to the drop. Some of the sap in the 5/16 drop flowed out but quite a bit stayed there. When I connected it briefly to the new tee sap and bubbles starting going up the drop. So I replaced the drop with 3/16. Sap continued flowing in the lateral but much slower. I ended up replacing all the tees and drops above there with 3/16 and overall flow increased a lot probably double.

the combo tees I removed didn’t appear to be clogged so I’m not sure what was going on with the 5/16 drops so I haven’t figured out and I will check again today. My eyes tell me there is some kind of vacuum for some reason pulling sap in the 5/16 drops back into the tree. But I’ve heard that’s not supposed to happen with 5/16 and is the reason to use it rather than than 3/16. We’ll see.

I don’t know if you’re having similar trouble to mine but what I’ve learned on this forum is to look at each tap to see where flow stops or slows, and start fixing from there.

[CaptT820]

I am actually having somewhat of a similar problem which I don't know if it is related to vacuum or not. I pulled the end of one line out of the bucket and tried to suck a vacuum through it, and the sap initially flowed. When I stopped sucking on it, the sap went back up the tubing as if there was a reverse vacuum situation going on. So, I don't really know what is happening. I didn't have any issues last year with the 3/16" x 5x16" tees, so Im not really sure what the problem is.

[maple flats]

I have plenty of 3/16 lines all with 5/16 drops and taps. I have not seen the issue you are describing. I have new drops, taps and Tees on mine. One thing I do on all tap holes is I look into the hole, if I see any drill shavings I use a small twig from nearby to remove it. I do not save the twig, each time I need to remove a drill shaving I use a new twig. I break the twig off without touching the part that will be pushed into the tap hole. Touching that or using a twig for more than one hole can contaminate the tap hole which can result in the tap hole drying up sooner.

[maple flats]

drill shavings are a possible cause. How old is the lateral line? Was it cleaned at the end of last year? If yes, how?
Another cause can just be from a film that was in the lateral line came loose when it got wet and it might be plugging a T downstream. This film that might cause that can be almost impossible to see, it can be nearly clear. Properly cleaned lines rarely do that, but even then it can happen.No tubing cleaning method I'm aware of is 100% effective, you may need a few new T's, that is the most likely part to plug. Cleaning a T and reusing is rarely worth the effort, just remove the T and use a new one. Otherwise you might just be "penny wise and pound foolish".

[Walling's Maple Syrup]

We clean every hole we drill. Have for the past twenty years or so. It is really important in the 3/16 tubing to not have any shavings left in hole. We use the head of a 3" splitless siding nail. Fits in the hole perfectly. Use the same nail all day. Sanitize daily before use. Never had tapholes dry because of it. Starting tapping Dec 26 last year. Made syrup till April 22. Sap was still running in May when we were pulling them. It's better to have a clean taphole than one full of wood chips.
Neil

[steve J]

First have all your trees awaken? is it possible some are still froze up? I use 3/16 laterals in drops I have had on occasion a T get plugged due to wood shavens but not very often.

[wnybassman]

A few times I have removed the top tap from a tree and that will usually quickly flush smaller clogs, or just confirm there never was a clog.

[tgormley358]

To me the issue some of us are talking about, with sap running back up a drop rather than down into the lateral, sounds less like a clog and more like the issue I’ve heard with 3/16 drops, that it can cause a tree to suck sap back into the tree. Yesterday I looked at all my lines and replaced some more combo tees where I noticed a column of sap just sitting in the drop. The lateral below was running fine in most cases. But the sap in the drop wasn’t moving. I watched a couple times smaller wood shavings pass right thru tees in laterals with no problem. When I cut the drop at the tap to replace it with a 3/16 drop (again I’m out of the combo tees so I’m replacing with all 3/16 tees now) the sap sitting in that 5/16 drop ran right down into the lateral. So the tree does appear to have some reverse vac preventing the sap from running down to the lateral. Once I replaced the drop I then watched sap run from tap down the new 3/16 drop into the lateral, all good.

Would shavings in the tap hole create suction like this?

[maple flats]

Not if the tree has a positive pressure in the tree, but when the tree starts to freeze as temps drop, yes it can. That is the same way the tree pulls more water up in the roots.

[CaptT820]

Thank you all for commenting on this. I went out and checked on 20-30 of my tees yesterday and about 1/2 of them had some sort of blockage due to schmoo or woodchips. I should've cleaned the holes better when I tapped, especially due to using a new bit (very sharp, larger chips), but some of my taps are quite high and I couldn't blow into them as usual. Lesson learned. To answer some other questions, I did not clean the older lines from last year (about 80% of the lines got replaced this year), but probably should have with the addition of the new 3/16" tees. In trying to get a bit more vacuum I ended up causing an issue. Again, lesson learned. Fourth season, still learning new techniques.

[bmbmkr]

but some of my taps are quite high and I couldn't blow into them as usual.

Blowing into the tap hole is proven to introduce bacteria and reduce the amount of sap you'll get from that tap. It;s the instinctual thing to do, but it's also kind of the cardinal rule in sugaring. Caught my dad doin it when we tapped this year! Just keep the bit spinning when you pull it out, usually pulls all the chips out.

In regards to drops- I used 3/16 drops the first year, and switched to 5/16 the second after watching my lines late at night draw sap all the way to the tap as the run ended. 2nd year I used CV spouts, but with 5/16 drops, I never saw more than 4 inches of sap draw up at night when the run ended. 5/16 is roughly 3x capacity as 3/16. This year I have 5 laterals (62 taps) on a shurflo, pulling 24" when everything is tight. I turned the pump off one night to bring it in and watched the sap run backwards and some of the drops filled up about 6 inches with sap. I went to every single drop on the line and none of them pulled back into the tap hole, no where near it. I did not use CV spouts this year. These lateral on the pump are pretty level, not much drop at all- one I'm actually pulling uphill about 4' from the last tap. I have not been down and seen how much if any my steeper laterals draw back towards the trees- 35-50 of drop n those after the last tap, if any, they usually freeze before they stop running.

[Paul VT]

Never suppose to blow or stick anything other then a spout into hole after drilling. Spend the money of a good tapping bit. Drill on high speed in and out and hole should be clean. Never had another issue after spending the money on a good drill bit.

[hogisland42]

I cut one end off a wire tie and use it to clean out a hole if needed. then I stick it through the hole in my jacket zipper to hold it till needed

[CaptT820]

Would a can of compressed air work properly? I have a brand new stainless steel bit, but still apparently got some chips left in the hole.
In commenting on the other part of this conundrum, have people had better luck with the 3/16" or 5/16" drops? Of course I changed everything to 3/16" drops this year and Im having some issues.

[CaptT820]

As an update to this thread. I pulled several 3/16" tees to find that 90% or better of them were not blocked with anything. It turns out my problem was with the taps. I am using white 5/16" to 3/16" nylon taps, and the sap actually froze in the tap and upon removal of the tap I found frost at the end of the taphole. We had two consecutive below zero nights here last week, so that probably didn't help our cause. I pulled all of my taps, cleaned the holes with a stainless wire and placed them back in the tree. Hopefully that'll fix what has been wrong. Tough season so far.

[Daveg]

Thank you all for commenting on this. I went out and checked on 20-30 of my tees yesterday and about 1/2 of them had some sort of blockage due to schmoo or woodchips. I should've cleaned the holes better when I tapped, especially due to using a new bit (very sharp, larger chips), but some of my taps are quite high and I couldn't blow into them as usual. Lesson learned. To answer some other questions, I did not clean the older lines from last year (about 80% of the lines got replaced this year), but probably should have with the addition of the new 3/16" tees. In trying to get a bit more vacuum I ended up causing an issue. Again, lesson learned. Fourth season, still learning new techniques.
Blowing into your holes to clean them will do the opposite and encourage schmoo to grow.

[CaptT820]

Just to clarify, i normally do not blow into the taps unless necessary (most are too high anyway). We also consume our own syrup, so we are not selling it. On top of that nearly every bacterial organism dies if the temperature gets down to -4F regardless of what type of bacteria. I don't want to get into a science discussion on this, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who has ever blown into a tap hole. I will clean with a stainless wire from here on out.

[DrTimPerkins]

...nearly every bacterial organism dies if the temperature gets down to -4F regardless of what type of bacteria.

Several types of bacteria and lots of other types of microbes survive cold temperatures just fine. Most cannot grow/reproduce below freezing, but cold temperatures alone do not kill them. Many times cultures of different microorganisms are frozen to preserve them. Microbes that form spores can be extremely cold tolerant.

[Paul VT]

Just to clarify, i normally do not blow into the taps unless necessary (most are too high anyway). We also consume our own syrup, so we are not selling it. On top of that nearly every bacterial organism dies if the temperature gets down to -4F regardless of what type of bacteria. I don't want to get into a science discussion on this, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who has ever blown into a tap hole. I will clean with a stainless wire from here on out.

Blowing into the holes I don’t think will effect the final product since it is boiled and hopefully canned at 180 degrees. . The point is it has the chance to introduce bacteria that can cause the holes to dry up and reduce sap flow.