Homemade float valve to pan connection

[Jerkzack]

So I'm looking to add a homemade float valve similar to fisheatingbagel did in his thread here:

http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?24221-Home-built-float-valve-build

My pan does not have a connection for a float valve yet. Is there any rough suggestion on how high up from the bottom I should drill and solder a fitting? And same with the float pan, how high should I install the fitting in that?

[SyncroScott]

Coincidently, I'm right at that exact same point in the same project as you are!

In my case, the existing draw-off nipple is right at the bottom of my pan. I plan on doing the same with my second nipple at the opposite corner, since I want to being able to use it as a reverse-flow as well as for the float pan so I am going to match the original.

As for my float box, I made one also very similar (though with a 1/4 steam pan); but luckily I built and tested that last season. Because I used a SS "ball" type float, it requires the sap to be deeper than it is in the evap pan. I tested out my float pan prior in my kitchen sink by marking lines on the inside every half inch up from the bottom. Then i filled the pan to figure out where the ball started to float and where it would shut off the incoming flow (with the ball in the middle of it's adjustable range). Then it was just a matter of figuring out where the float box needed to be mounted to the side of the evap pan so that the sap level chosen from my tests for the float box would be at the same level as my ideal sap level in the evap pan.

Incidentally, the way I "field" tested my float box last season during actual boils was to rig up a siphon. Was pretty easy to set up and that way I could test all components out before I committed to drilling into my precious evaporator pan.

[Jerkzack]

Coincidently, I'm right at that exact same point in the same project as you are!

In my case, the existing draw-off nipple is right at the bottom of my pan. I plan on doing the same with my second nipple at the opposite corner, since I want to being able to use it as a reverse-flow as well as for the float pan so I am going to match the original.

As for my float box, I made one also very similar (though with a 1/4 steam pan); but luckily I built and tested that last season. Because I used a SS "ball" type float, it requires the sap to be deeper than it is in the evap pan. I tested out my float pan prior in my kitchen sink by marking lines on the inside every half inch up from the bottom. Then i filled the pan to figure out where the ball started to float and where it would shut off the incoming flow (with the ball in the middle of it's adjustable range). Then it was just a matter of figuring out where the float box needed to be mounted to the side of the evap pan so that the sap level chosen from my tests for the float box would be at the same level as my ideal sap level in the evap pan.

Incidentally, the way I "field" tested my float box last season during actual boils was to rig up a siphon. Was pretty easy to set up and that way I could test all components out before I committed to drilling into my precious evaporator pan.



Hmm interesting! I never thought to test out the float valve and mark the min and max before installing the outlet fitting. Thanks!

[fisheatingbagel]

I don't think there's any disadvantage in having the opening low in the pan, but obviously you don't want it too high. The bottom of the inlet on my Smoky Lake pan is maybe 1/2" from the bottom of the pan (top of the flues)?

[SyncroScott]

Here's my float rig in action...she ain't pretty but worked well during testing as a proof-of-concept.
19608

[In da bush]

That’s a slick use of some of off the shelf components. Good work!!
Materials list?

[maple flats]

Rather than trying to set up a siphon, I encourage you to use bulkhead fittings and attach the float box to the side of the evaporator. The I.D. of the fitting should match at least the size of what you need for good flow in the feed line or even 1 size larger. A siphon can work well until in the middle of a draw, a boiling bubble enters the siphon and the flow stops. It only takes 1 or 2 such air bubble(s) in the high part of the siphon to stop the flow. Some rather inexpensive ones can be found on Amazon.

[SyncroScott]

Rather than trying to set up a siphon, I encourage you to use bulkhead fittings and attach the float box to the side of the evaporator. The I.D. of the fitting should match at least the size of what you need for good flow in the feed line or even 1 size larger. A siphon can work well until in the middle of a draw, a boiling bubble enters the siphon and the flow stops. It only takes 1 or 2 such air bubble(s) in the high part of the siphon to stop the flow. Some rather inexpensive ones can be found on Amazon.

Actually just drilled the hole for the new welded nipple about a half hour ago! At the point at which the photo was taken it was just a proof-of-concept for the box and valve set-up that I used for the last couple weeks in conjunction with the warming pan. Worked like a charm! Given that, I now feel confident enough to drill into my pan. I was intending to use SS bulkhead fittings and actually bought them but then decided that I wanted a more robust fitting lower in the pan that I could get using them. Found a local guy who is willing to do some quick TIG welding in-trade for a half gallon! ;-)

[SyncroScott]

That’s a slick use of some of off the shelf components. Good work!!
Materials list?

Thanks!

I think I can get specific names/numbers but really all I did was Google SS float valve to find the main component and wing it from there. BUT I did learn some things: this particular type/brand of valve has a lever arm that leaves a LOT to be desired. There was significant "slop" between the arm and the valve slide so the level would change a lot before actually closing or opening the valve so it took some considerable "hacking" to make it work. Also, the arm is also SS and very short so is not at all bendable to enable level adjustment, hence the roughly fabricated arm (but with quite a bit of finite adjustability). The fitting on the other side of the valve is just a 3/8" OD Shark Bite to 1/2" FPT. the pan is a cheap 6" deep 1/4 size steam pan I believe.

Also Maple Flats is correct: while the siphon can work great initially, it can (and will) eventually develop bubbles in the top and stop working. So during this test run using the siphon I continued to have the warming pan at-the-ready so I could quickly dump a bunch of sap should the evap pan sap level get dangerously low.

[In da bush]

Nice,sounds like it’s gonna work good. I’ll google the valve,thanks👍🏼

[SyncroScott]

Nice,sounds like it’s gonna work good. I’ll google the valve,thanks����

I finally found the same brand I have (Aquamedia) and the ebay store I got it from (link below). I noticed there is a very similar one on Amazon for less but with a different arm design. As I said, the arm was the most problematic so if you are willing/able to fabricate your own from maybe some copper rod (all it could possibly take is soldering a small washer on the valve end, drill a pivot hole, and add threads to the ball end...hey now that I'm thinking of it...I might do the same..HA!) you could make something the suits your needs better.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/STAINLESS-STEEL-FLOAT-LEVEL-CONTROL-VALVE-1-2-NPT-SHUT-OFF-ASSEMBLY/181863881344?hash=item2a57ee9a80:g:WCcAAOSw2DBaqs9 7

[Jerkzack]

Here is the valve I used:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-Steel-Float-Ball-Valve-Stainless-Steel-High-Pressure-Automatic-Water-Tanks/153282343801?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

As SyncroScott mentioned, there is quite a bit of side-to-side slop, hopefully going to remedy that with some nylon washers. I also shortened the stainless arm as it was too long for the box. I just added 2 inches of threads with a die set and cut off the excess. Not planning on micro adjustments yet but that might have to be revisited.

pan:
https://www.amazon.com/Winco-SPT6-Size-Pan-NSF/dp/B001VZ8OF6/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=winco+1%2F3+pan&qid=1552001858&s=gateway&sr=8-3

1/2" npt to garden hose connection at the ball valve from home depot (I'm not running a pre-heater)
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-Lead-Free-Brass-Garden-Hose-Adapter-3-4-in-FHT-x-1-2-in-FIP-801669/300095984

and 2x 1/2" male npt solderable bulkhead fittings, one on pan, one on float box
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/ptbulkheadmf.htm

with a union between them
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/nptunion12.htm

Definitely not planning on the bulkheads carrying the weight of this box. I'll probably support it with a leftover chunk of 2x4 cut with an angle grinder an inch too short.


I've actually gotten quite a few fittings from www.brewhardware.com. Added fittings to my finishing pot for a drain spout and thermometer, as well as this float box project. Great service and products!

[In da bush]

Thanks JZ,I think I’m gonna fab one of these as a backup. Unfortunately I pulled the trigger on a Leader bolt on float because I though the season was about to pop off a week ago. Have a great season up there!!

Here is the valve I used:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-Steel-Float-Ball-Valve-Stainless-Steel-High-Pressure-Automatic-Water-Tanks/153282343801?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

As SyncroScott mentioned, there is quite a bit of side-to-side slop, hopefully going to remedy that with some nylon washers. I also shortened the stainless arm as it was too long for the box. I just added 2 inches of threads with a die set and cut off the excess. Not planning on micro adjustments yet but that might have to be revisited.

pan:
https://www.amazon.com/Winco-SPT6-Size-Pan-NSF/dp/B001VZ8OF6/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=winco+1%2F3+pan&qid=1552001858&s=gateway&sr=8-3

1/2" npt to garden hose connection at the ball valve from home depot (I'm not running a pre-heater)
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-Lead-Free-Brass-Garden-Hose-Adapter-3-4-in-FHT-x-1-2-in-FIP-801669/300095984

and 2x 1/2" male npt solderable bulkhead fittings, one on pan, one on float box
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/ptbulkheadmf.htm

with a union between them
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/nptunion12.htm

Definitely not planning on the bulkheads carrying the weight of this box. I'll probably support it with a leftover chunk of 2x4 cut with an angle grinder an inch too short.


I've actually gotten quite a few fittings from www.brewhardware.com. Added fittings to my finishing pot for a drain spout and thermometer, as well as this float box project. Great service and products!