Pump help Please

[Ivyacres]

I have tried several pumps over the last three years and still haven't found one that works the way I want it too. Of coarse I'm cheap, but will spend the money if theres no better option. I need to pump from my collection tote, uphill 300 ft. There is 70ft of drop, so its pretty steep in that 300 ft. It's expensive to run 220 down to that tote so I have been using extension cords (110volt)to the bottom and then half way up to a second tote and then to my truck. Is there a gas pump that would pump the entire way? I would like to have discharge be 1" or at least 1 1/4" then drop to 1" half of the way. I want to get rid of the halfway tote. I've been using sump pumps.
THANKS!
Bob

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

We bought a 1" gas pump from Harbor Freight for $200. Look there and see if there is more information on what it will do. Others who know may chime in. It's one of the cheaper gas options out there but that is probably what you will need.

[VTnewguy]

We have a harbor freight pump that works better than the Honda. It might weigh a little bit more but primes easier. I would also look at eBay for a 1" water pump.

[Cjadamec]

70 ft of vertical rise will require 30 psi of pump pressure just to get the water to the top of the hill. This height will be the main driver for the cost and power requirements of your pump.

I will add an extra 10 ft of head for pipe and fittings this brings you up to about 35 psi just to get to the top of the hill with 0gpm of flow.

When you are comparing pumps for this job you need to see how much flow they will have @80-90ft of head on the pump.

THIS gas power pump (https://www.harborfreight.com/2-in-212cc-gasoline-engine-semi-trash-water-pump-158-gpm-63405.html)from harbor freight (just using as an example) will pump to the top of the hill. According to the pump curve you should expect to see about 30 gallons per minute of flow at the top of the hill at 80ft of head pressure.

I would run at least 1.5" pipe up the hill to maintain enough flow through the pump so you don't burn it out. Pipe any smaller than 1.5" will drastically reduce the flow rate.

Of note the 1" pump from harbor freight is only capable of 35ft of discharge head so it won't be strong enough for your application.

Running 220v power to run a pump is no more expensive than running 110v. Its the same conductors in each cord it's just wired differently.

[maple flats]

Actually if you run electric, 240 will have less voltage drop. Just use a voltage drop calculator to know what gauge wire to use. If you go 120V the wire needs to be heavier than it does in 240V to run the same HP pump (for example a 120/240 pump needing 15 A on 120v only uses 7.5A on 240V). You can get voltage drops online, just be sure of your distances. Know what your voltage starts at, on 120 you don't want the power at the pump to be lower than 110V and on 240 you don't want it lower than 220 at the pump. A multi meter can give you your starting voltage, test it several times over a period of time, it will change a little at different times. For example, my home 240 voltage ranges between 243 and 229V. I use 228 in my calculations (120V will be half that)
On the other hand a 1" Honda (WX10) will have the power to move the sap. Using a 1" pump it will pump faster if you run 1.25" the whole distance, reducing to 1" adds line friction. The only case where that may still be alright is if you pump thru 1.25" over the top of the hill and then if it has decent down slope go to 1", gravity can then help make up for the line friction.
Whichever way you go, use need to understand that a pump pushes far better than it pulls so if you see that a pump will self prime to 23' it does not mean you would want to go let's say 20' rise, set the pump there and then push the rest of the way, it would work but much slower (because the pump removes the sap but you only have about 14.7 PSI air pressure pushing the sap to the pump, not the pump pressure after the pump.

[jetdoc]

We also use the Harbor Freight 1 inch pump with 1 1/2" tube. 1200+ feet long and around a 50 foot rise. works perfect.

[MISugarDaddy]

I highly suggest changing the spark plug that comes in the Harbor Freight pump to an NGK, it will start much easier.
Gary

[buckeye gold]

A simple solution that might work for you is a submersible deep well pump. drop it in the tote and wire it to a switch. You'll want a union on the discharge pipe so you can take it out if there is danger of freezing or to clean. A 1/2 HP will do it. You can usually get one for around $250.00. I used one for years to pump water from a storage tank up a hill with 50 feet of elevation change and ~325 feet long. I ran it for years, but it wasn't high volume, probably around 10-15 GPM.

[Ivyacres]

I appreciate all of the ideas to help me out. I'm going to buy a gas pump and try it out. I'll let you know how it works.

[VT_K9]

You can go to the Honda website and use their pump select feature to help understand what you can expect for flow rates. We found to it to be accurate when we shopped for and bought a 1.5" pump.

Make sure your fitting and suction are at least the size of the pump. Also if you go to a larger up hill pipe you will have more sap left to backflow at the end. We use 1.5" to go 750 feet with a 65 foot rise and there is about 75 gallons left in the pipe to haul up. THe longest we went with a 3/4" pipe was about 300'. We used a 110 line run on top of the ground, fed from a generator, to several pump stations. We use a wayne pump for the pumping and it worked. It too awhile, but the job was done.

Mike

[maple flats]

Pump flows, maybe I can shed some light on the subject. Back 35-40 years ago, I grew 3.5 acres of strawberries. For frost protection I needed to run the irrigation all night, until after the ice that forms on the strawberry buds all melts off. I used a 12 HP fire 3" pump. I had to use a 4" suction pipe and 4" out to the first junction where the pipes split into 2 pipes of 3" each. Had I not done that I would not have gotten enough pressure for all 43 sprinklers to spray enough water to protect the buds. I had very little rise in elevation, the pump sat beside the pond. As pumping started on any night the pond was only about 5' below the pump level, at the end of the night as I could shut the pump off the pond was up to 9' lower. (If a second night was forecast to have a frost, I pumped more water, with 2 pumps of 2" size 1500' away and about 10' lower, at a creek to refill the pond. That took 8 hrs to refill the pond)
Line friction is a big factor. If the pipe used is not large enough to keep the line friction down, the pump moves far less water (or in your case, sap)

[Jtheisen]

Most gas 1” or 1-1/2” pumps say they will push 90’ head and pull 20+’


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[maple flats]

Never go by the theory "most gas pumps say", read the specs on the pump you are thinking of buying. Most do not say they will push 90' of head, nor will they lift 20'. Each is related to several factors and not just that it is a 1" or 1.5" pump.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

I highly suggest changing the spark plug that comes in the Harbor Freight pump to an NGK, it will start much easier.
Gary

Do you know what the cross referenced NGK plug is by chance? I want to pick up a couple.

[red/one]

I have a 1" HF gas powered pump, Torch E4RC plug. NAPA cross reference gave me a Champion 830
Cross to an 830 is-
NGK BR6HS
Autolite 414
Hope this helps

[MISugarDaddy]

On my HF pump, the plug that came in it was a Torch E5TC. The NGK equivalent was BP5HS. I run a gap of .031". It definitely helps it start easier.
Gary

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Thanks guys, I’ll take a look and see what it has.

[Kubota900]

I have used Honda WH15X gas pump for 15 plus years .The Honda WH15X is a high pressure high output pump. Ive pump 1200 feet from back of woods to storage tank to be picked up. It was up hill 600 ft. about 60 ft. rise then down hill to truck tank. Never had a problem.

[Goggleeye]

I have used Honda WH15X gas pump for 15 plus years .The Honda WH15X is a high pressure high output pump. Ive pump 1200 feet from back of woods to storage tank to be picked up. It was up hill 600 ft. about 60 ft. rise then down hill to truck tank. Never had a problem.

What size line were you using on this to pump 1200 ft?