Evaporator pan advice for block arch

[jimmol]

I have 12 taps and a small block arch (Pictured below) that I have used for a few years with steam table pans. Currently the pan area is 25" long and 20" wide. It has the potential to be as wide as 26" and as long as 36 inches with moving or adding a block or 6.
While it has been ok, there always seem to be some smoky flavor to my syrup that others have noticed, probably from pans not fitting tightly and lifting the pans out. I also have had the problem of scorching the near finished product as I pour it out over the hot side - should know better but forget.
Last year my boy suggested I invest in a countinuous flow pan pan that sits on top the arch and not in the fire. At the time I wasn't wanting to spend 250 to 350 for something I would be getting a few years of use. I changed my mind, seeing the used equipment prices, figured I could use it and then sell it for a part of what I paid. I also would look forward to drawing off finished product, once I get the hang of it.
So I looked around and have found 3 new pans that fit in my budget - have not found a good site for used small pans. Two brands have been discussed here and one I came across by accident. I would like your opinions as the pros and cons as to which might be better. One comes with a warming pan - helpful? They are all about the same area so would take about the same amount of sap to fill to the desired level, which Badgerland suggests as 2" deep. Another thing I noticed that one of them had the dividers running across, while the other had them running length wise. Any downside with the direction the divider. Here are the pans and the links - unless I am not to put links in my post...so I put additional info.

Badgerland 2′ x 2′ x 8" Divided Maple Syrup Pan w/Valve, Plugs, Therm Stainless Steel Draw-Off Valve with Nipple, 1/4″ Stainless Steel Plug for the Accessory Port, Maple Thermometer to monitor sap progress, 22 gauge, mirror finish stainless steel which offers superior heat transfer, This unit fully reversible simply by turning the pan 180º, <https://badgerlandmapleworks.com/shop/divided-maple-syrup-pan-2-x-2/>

Silver Creek 18 x 34 x 6" Divided Maple Syrup Pan, Warming Pan and Valves 20 ga, Includes 2 ball valves, Made from 20 gauge 304 stainless steel. Tig welded pans with dividers that are spot welded in. A 1/4" thermometer port and 3" dial Tel-Tru maple thermometer can also be added.($55.00) <http://www.maplesyruppans.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=60&product_id=93>

Sapling Evaporator Pan - 30" x 20" x 6" and is made from 18 gauge stainless steel. Includes two baffles to partition sap and a pour-off valve. All welds are lead free. <https://www.vtevap.com/store/p19/Sapling_Evaporator_Pan.html>

Thanks for your input!
1926319262

[ecolbeck]

I think that warming pans, although of dubious thermodynamic value, are nice because they help you regulate the sap input flow. Keeping the sap flow steady, and therefore the level in the pan steady, will help you form a gradient in the pan and make syrup at a slow steady rate. As a general rule, keeping sap levels lower will increase evaporation rates.


In general, I am a fan of long narrow pans rather than shorter wider pans. Longer pans are more fuel efficient because they allow for a greater distance that flue gasses must travel before exiting the arch. This will allow for greater utilization of available heat.

The word on the street is that thinner metal (higher gauge #) is better because it allows for greater heat transfer. Practically speaking I'm not convinced it matters that much.

A draw off valve and a thermometer port are absolutely necessary if you plan to finish syrup on your pan (easy to do).

Reversibility is nice because niter can build up and cause problems. However, small pans are easy to clean if niter does build up. If you're going to spend the time reversing it you might as well just clean it out.

For a pan this size I doubt there is any real advantage to longitudinal vs. lateral dividers. In general, you want to maximize the distance that the sap has to travel. This will make forming a gradient easier.

[ecolbeck]

I have more opinions

The Badgerland is by far and away the best built of the three pans. The metal folding and weld quality is far better than the Silver Creek or Sapling models. The Silver Creek pan has edges that are just folded over. The SC pan comes with what appear to be brass valves and a thermometer is extra (although it does come with a warming pan). Perhaps I am a snob, but I prefer stainless valves. If it matters to you, replacing the valves would be easy and not that expensive. However, for not much more money you could get a 2x3 Badgerland model with thermometer and purchase a warming pan for it next season. There is also WF Mason in Maine. They have a excellent product at a good price too.

[Sugarmaker]

My suggestion is to go watch some others boil. I am sure all of those rigs/pans will work for you. I am not familiar with them except for some of the names. Sounds like your moving on up! Have fun!
Regards,
Chris

[unclejohn]

If you are getting smoke wisps around your pans, you might try using the high temp gasket material. Its called thermofab or ceramic wool, and it comes on a roll, in various widths or thicknesses. I buy the 2" x 1/8" material on roll, and cut it to 1" then place it on the concrete blocks, and stuff it into anywhere I see smoke leaking up. Also you might put a sheet of metal on the inlet side of your arch as a damper; if we don't have a great draft up the flue, smoke will billow out the inlet side. You can adjust the position of the metal sheet to make sure that air only goes in, and no smoke comes out. I always try to find a lower cost alternative to buying new equipment. John

[woodsy]

OK hardware sells some different size 16 ga. SS pans that will take a drain valve for a little extra.
Good prices, good quality. Bought the 2' x 2' x 6" pan going on 3rd season soon.

http://okhardwarestore.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=41

[maple flats]

I don't Think I'd suggest a 16 ga pan, new or used. Most commercial evaporators are 22 or 20 ga for a reason, more efficient heat transfer, they boil faster which saves fuel. Have you looked at any of the used pans Bascom has? www.bascommaple.com Many other larger dealers offer good used pans too. If you find soldered pan have a lead test kit with you to test it (available at hardware stores). None of them will be 16 ga. unless they were welded by a welder who did not know how to weld thinner SS.

[woodsy]

I doubt a 32nd of an inch difference in pan thickness would amount to a hill
of beans to a hobby sugarer. 16 gauge is just shy of a 1/16 inch , 22 gauge is 1/32 inch.
Stiffer pan on a block arch might actually be a good thing but each to their own.
I can have approx 12 gals sap to a rolling boil from a cold start in 1/2 hr and then
boil off 7-8 gals hr with a 2' x 2' x 6" 16 ga. pan. Not bad at all.

[raptorfan85]

I don't Think I'd suggest a 16 ga pan, new or used. Most commercial evaporators are 22 or 20 ga for a reason, more efficient heat transfer, they boil faster which saves fuel. Have you looked at any of the used pans Bascom has? www.bascommaple.com Many other larger dealers offer good used pans too. If you find soldered pan have a lead test kit with you to test it (available at hardware stores). None of them will be 16 ga. unless they were welded by a welder who did not know how to weld thinner SS.

I also second looking at used pans. I looked at some of bascoms used pans before I bought mine. They have a big selection at very reasonable prices for someone on a budget. Cant beat the prices on SS welded pans and they were mostly in good shape.

[barnbc76]

Do you have enough trees to tap to make going to a bigger pan worth while? 12 taps would probably not be enough unless you boil once a week.

[jimmol]

...Also you might put a sheet of metal on the inlet side of your arch as a damper; if we don't have a great draft up the flue, smoke will billow out the inlet side. You can adjust the position of the metal sheet to make sure that air only goes in, and no smoke comes out. I always try to find a lower cost alternative to buying new equipment. John

Thanks for the metal "front Door" idea. I was using several bricks that I would adjust to stop the smoke wisps and for some reason I put a piece of sheet metal on the stack side - maybe to try to keep the heat in? I really do want to move to a divided flat pan, however.
Thanks for the suggestion.

[jimmol]

Have you looked at any of the used pans Bascom has? www.bascommaple.com Many other larger dealers offer good used pans too. SS.

First I am tied to a limited size by the block arch I currently have - I wanted one that would allow me to use it with minimal adjustment. I did look at Bascom and tried to find other places which had used pans, but in the end the new ones I was looking at was the same price or less than the used ones.
Thanks.

[jimmol]

Do you have enough trees to tap to make going to a bigger pan worth while? 12 taps would probably not be enough unless you boil once a week.
I was trying to find a process so I could boil faster and with my current set up and what is available I had to go slightly bigger, by about 200 sq in. I want to spend less time boiling. The RO system I build cut the time greatly, but after getting off work, I am getting tired of staying up late to finish boiling the 2 day supply.
So I am going with an 18" by 34" divided pan from Silver Creek. I comes with a warming pan, which some say is pretty useless, a draw off valve and warming tank valve. I added a thermometer port and thermometer as I hope to get as close as possible to finish as I am able. I am modifying my block arch - ever try to get apart frozen concrete blocks? - and upgrading it. Next summer my boy hopes to build an arch with will put the warming tank behind the pan. Until then, it is what it is.
Thanks to you and all who chimed in. I will have some questions about my block arch mods in the next post.

[CaptT820]

I boil on a block arch with 4 hotel style pans right now but would like to upgrade to a larger 2x4 divided pan. I'd like to eventually go up to a non-block real arch in the future, so any ideas on really good quality 2x4 pans for my operation? We take in around 400-500 gallons of sap per year right now for reference although we RO'd it last year down to about 150-200 gallons to boil.
I'm just looking for a solution to simplfy the boiling process from having to concentrate the sap in the hotel pans. Our syrup tastes great, but is always dark due to the long boiling process.

Thanks

[TheMapleNews]

Check out the website for our new sponsor, the Vermont Evaporator Co. (upper right hand corner of this page)

Pans designed specifically for the hobby sugarmaker. Well made and affordable.

Good luck with your season...

[jimmol]

There are many brands of pans that are really good in different ways at many different price ranges with various options as in thermometer ports. CDL, Bascom, Leader, Smoky Lake, Badgerland, Silver Creek and Vermont Evaporator to name a few. Finishes range from "brushed"(I forgot the correct name) finish to mirror finished stainless steel. There are threads that talk about which might be better. The higher priced ones seem to be thinner, better quality stainless steel and have a continuous weld all along the dividers.
For me, cost was important, so I choose a Silver Creek pan, which uses a good quality steel but it appears that they, as well as Vermont Evaporator, spot weld the dividers in place. It came with a copy/brass draw off valve instead of stainless steel. While it would be fun to get a new polished pan, I cannot justify the extra money. Then I think, "I am spending 450 for a pan, only 900 more for a Mason evaporator. Have fun researching.
My advice as a novice: What is most important to you? Finish, craftsmanship, type of welding, type of stainless, accessories included, cost? Start with what is important and go from there.

[CaptT820]

I think I have made a decision on a Smoky Lake 2x4 divided pan, as the price is where I'd like to be at $590. If others had to choose between adding a float box or adding a feed pan, which way would you guys go and why? I think I'd want to add both, but it adds $445 to the cost to have both. Thx

[ecolbeck]

If the choice is between one or the other, the float box is a far superior choice. A float box will automatically keep the sap level stable which makes forming and keeping a gradient easier. A warming pan has only modest thermodynamic value and must be constantly monitored to ensure stable sap levels in the pan.

[jimmol]

I have decided to add a float (after reading comments above) to my simple system as I will be adding firewood, monitoring temp, drawing off sample, checking sample, drawing off to the filter, adding sap to the warming pan, so I figured I would eliminate one step. Zack at Silver Creek made one to fit my pan and added an extra valve so I can remove it when it will be a hard freeze.
The hard part is the block arch. Four inch wide blocks leave no room for a normal floats drop down beneath the pan, so he designed on with a half inch drop - a little less than the gasket height beneath the pan.
I had to send back the thermometer and order a bottom mount - again, no room for a back mount.
Glad I left this thread open.

[jimmol]

Boiling on the Silver Creek divided pan update:
In the last week the trees produced 54 gallons of sap, 2.8%, which were reduced to 27.5 gallons of ave 6.8% by my homemade RO.
I started the sweetening process with 11.5 gal of RO which brought the pan up to 38%. I could have waited a day or two more, but wanted to learn how to run the new setup. I love the float pan.
4 days later I boiled the remaining and had syrup ready to draw, but I drew off a bit too much so I have a cup at 65%. Fine for me to use in the weeks to come. The remainder of the pan starts at 60% and goes down from there. The next boil should start producing a bit more syrup.
My 15 taps average 10 gallons per day on my vacuums.
One contributor wondered if the few taps I have would warrant the larger pan. Perhaps. I don't want to boil everyday. Ice blocks in gallon jugs can keep the sap below 40 and I store the concentrate in 5 gallons buckets in the fridge. But after 27 gallons of concentrate and a only cup of almost syrup I wondered if I should have gotten the 18 by 24 instead of the 34" long. But a shorter pan would mean longer boils to remove the same amount of water, I believe. So the pan is sweetened so I look forward to starting to draw off on a regular basis.
At lease I know that it will take about 55 gallons of sap to sweeten the pan.

[jdircksen]

jimmol,
How has the Silver Creek 18x34 pan worked out for you over the past 2 years? I am looking to get that size because it will fit nicely on top of a pair of 16x16 gas burners.

[ir3333]

I doubt a 32nd of an inch difference in pan thickness would amount to a hill
of beans to a hobby sugarer. 16 gauge is just shy of a 1/16 inch , 22 gauge is 1/32 inch.
Stiffer pan on a block arch might actually be a good thing but each to their own.
I can have approx 12 gals sap to a rolling boil from a cold start in 1/2 hr and then
boil off 7-8 gals hr with a 2' x 2' x 6" 16 ga. pan. Not bad at all.

I think an thickness makes a huge difference in efficiency..as does the design of the arch.
You can boil an inch of sap on coals in a 22 gauge pan.A 16 gauge pan won't boil anything at all on coals.
With 16 gauge you just need a bigger fire.
It's hard to out boil 24 gauge steam pans all things being equal.
Is your pan 2' x 2' for a total of 4 sq. ft?