waste oil and alternative fuels

[SapSuckers]

what does everyone think of using waste oil to fire an evaporator. I am considering using waste car oil filtered and mixed 50/50, or 60/40 with kerosene. I know there must be enviromental concerns, and how much altering needs to be done to oil burner to get it to burn. I cant see where if your arch is good and tight it shoud effect taste any more than normal fuel oil.

i found an interesting article from the new york times in which a large producer in vermont switched to burning old vegitable oil. the was a cost in it at first but now gets the oil for free or very little. Mythbusters were able to run a diesiel car on nothing but filtered vegitable oil, so maybe something the maple industry will be looking at soon.

i added the link to the new york times article.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/28/business/28maple.html?ex=1335499200&en=78888dc855a59570&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

[maplecrest]

i looked at all the alternatives. lew from over your way is the one to talk about waste oil. i looked at the veg oil thing talked to the macdonalds people ect,it will be a lot of work to make your own bio deisel. it has to be preheated. dan crocker in southern vt. got a grant to convert. tank has to preheat oil so it is not a big glob of crisco. i bought an r/o jeff

[tuckermtn]

there are differences between bio diesel and waste vegtable oil. Bio diesel is a product that starts as veg oil and goes through a chemical coversion to what is called bio diesel. There are various kinds of bio diesel- B20 is 20% bio and 80 % pertroleum diesel. B100 is 100% bio diesel. Bio diesel can be burned in many diesel engines without significant modifications...I use B20 in my skidder, skid steer and log loader...some oil companies are now making something called bio heat that you can burn in on oil furnance. so presumably also in an oil fired evap.... so you pay for the conversion of the fuel, but you have to do little or no converting to your equipment...There are some gelling concerns when it gets really cold, but a general diesel anti-gel seems to work.

check out http://massenergy.com/MECA_BIOIL/what_is.htm

Waste veg oil is what it sounds like...but it hasn't had any chemical conversion- it can be burned in a diesel engine but you to to create a system that preheats the veg oil (to roughtly 160-180deg) to keep it, as jeff says "not just a block of crisco". Could be accompished by diverting steam to pre-heat the waste oil- a steam away might be able to work in that way... Once its hot, you could burn it in a diesel engine- and I would guess a oil furnace. Waste veg oil has pros and cons- You need to let the waste oil settle for a month or two before you can filter it and use it (something you could do in the off-season)...then you have to heat it - but the main pro is that you can get it most of the time for free.


Either way I would think if you had an oil fired rig, you could get some bonus points with customers...

for now I'll keep thinning in my sugarbush to keep my fires burning...

-tuckermtn

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I started to go with a waste oil burner instead of an inferno arch and if I had it to do over again, I would have went with the waste burner. I can get a reman burner for around $ 500 and the nozzles are $ 28. I would not get quite the gph as I could with an inferno arch, but I could get all the waste oil I wanted for free. I think it is a great idea and if the burner is burning correctly, there should not be any more enviromental concerns than on a regular oil burner.

Great idea in my opinion.

[Breezy Lane Sugarworks]

Last I knew, the VT maple producers quality control manual said that it is illegal to burn waste oil in an evaporator. Other states may have different regs.? but I have been wrong before....it's just the way i understood it.

[brookledge]

In mass. unless you generate all of the waste oil need you have to be licensed as a collection location which is much more work and $ DEP can make it difficult. Also when you generate a certain amount you are suppose to file with DEP where the waste oil goes.
The fines from DEP are very high if you get caught.
As far as I'm concerned as long as you properly dispose of it by taking it to someone (properly liscensed) that can burn it whats the harm but DEP says otherwise
Keith

[maplwrks]

I listened to Dan Crocker at the Maple Technology Expo in Essex this past July. Dan freely admits to much trial and error in getting his UVO set-up running right.One of the interesting things he told us was that most evaporators would not need to have work done to the burners. He uses a Oberdorfer pump to transfer the oil to a huge electric pre-heater. His tank is quite a ways from his evaporator, so he has a heated oil line coming in from the tank, the pump being mounted on the tank.
He says that UVO needs to be heated to 200 degrees to get it to atomize properly.Like the article said, Dan starts his rig on fuel oil and switches to UVO after a few minutes. He also shuts his rig down on fuel oil, so there is no gelling in the fuel pump.
I' m going to experiment with UVO this year and fully convert for the following season. I'll probably have a second coil added to my steam hood to heat the oil.
If anyone is interested in converting to UVO, Dan is more than happy to give advise. He has a real good slide presentation, if you can catch him at a maple seminar.

[Pete S]

Here's a link to a design site for a waste oil burner. I have burned some waste oil in my day.............and when you get'er HOT, there isn't much to "see" regarding smoke and particulates.

Environmentally, I would guess that IF you burned waste oils as HOT as you do your wood, it's potentially just as good or bad.

Check this out:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me4.html

Went for a walk in the woods this AM, and our Maples look OK considering the dry weather we've been having. (now less 2 squirrels)

Pete

[SapSuckers]

how about my idea of running a mix of kerosene and used motor oil. maybe even add some diesel, fuel oil. I would like to mix a 55 gal drum with say 20 gals of waste car oil and 35 gals of kerosene and run straight through my oil burner. Would it require a "mixing" each day to avoid the 2 products seperating due to a diffrence in specific gravity. This is waht i plan on doing this year unless talked out of it.

[Fred Henderson]

The big thing about used motor oil is that you want to filter it at least twice before it goes thru your burner. Otherwise you can kiss the pump and nozzle good- by. Do some research on how waste oil burners are set up. A freind had one in his garage and the oil was so abrasive even after 2 filters that his was constantly broke down.

[maplwrks]

Harry Atkinson (Thunderbolt Arch Inventor) and oil burner specialist thinks that with good filtration you can run up to 40% used oil in a blend of fuel oil with no modifications to the burners

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I would think paint filters would be a good thing to filter it with. As long as the oil is not cold and thick when the weather is cold, it should filter pretty good.

Sounds like a good project for Jim(mapleman3) to try with mixing waste oil. He is an oil man and can make anything work!

[Maplepro]

I have been thinking about setting up a used oil evaporator. I use used oil to heat my garage and love it I would guess the big thing is to find a supply of it we run a fleet of construction equipment and I also get it from a dealer. The only caution is one that everyone is saying you have to filter it! I would recommend 2 filters one rayon or a normal oil filter and one steel magnetic filter to make sure there are no particles that will kill your pump or clog your nozzles ( I was a slow learner 2 pumps later) and I can’t see why you couldn’t run a 50/50 split we sometimes mix diesel with our used oil and we find it works great .

[SapSuckers]

maplepro-

did you need to make and changes to your burner? do you think the strick filtering and a 50/50 mix is enough to run through a standard oil burner with no changes?

[Maplepro]

Chris,

I did have to chage the nozzles i will look tonight if i get a chance and see what the brand is i changed to. running a 50/50 mixtures it would be possible to run the same nozzles but for the the 25.00 a nozzle it is i would reccomend that you change your nozzles

[brookledge]

Like I said before you should check to make sure what you do is legal and you have the necessary permits to collect and store haz. mats. It is one thing to have a waste oil furnace in your garage or shop where nobody sees it other than you and your friends but at the sugarhouse you never know whos going to stop in and ask questions.
Don't get me wrong I'm not opposed to using waste oil I just hate to see somebody get fined by EPA or DEP because they don't care who you are or anything.
Keith

[VtSugarhouse]

Just for general information it is illegal to make maple syrup in the state of Vermont using waste oil, and that is a law. Check with the Dept of Ag. I am sure they will inform anyone.
As for any other state or province I do not know.
Keep in mind you are producing a food product and there are rules and laws.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Has anyone converted over to waste oil yet. Im not intrested in Bio or veggy.
I spent 2400.00 this year on #2 oil and its killing me. I spent the last week on the web talking to waste oil burner manf. and I can say only about 3 made any sense. My beckett can run about 9 gallons per hr and that alot of BTUs. I have feeling that my burner is not set right and that I need a barimetric dampner.
With a 3X10 drop flue and running over a 125 million BTUs per hr and I still only have 400 degrees in the stack and only a small boil near the end of my flue pan. With my burner on high fire I get a nice flame under the 3 feet of syrup pans and the first 2 feet of flue but it peaters out from there. I know there is room for improvment.
Back to waste oil burners the differance is waste burners spray oil under comp air and dont have as long a flame as oil thru a nozzel. I can get a 4000,000 BTU unit for about 2500.00 If you can put shingles in your cooker and not smell it why not waste oil?

OK give it to me stright I can get all the waste oil i need and they say motor oil has more BTUs than #2 fuel.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

The waste oil burner I was looking at before going to an inferno was basically the same as a regular burner as far as how it performed. It did require a special nozzle that was $ 28 @, but it would sure be better to get free oil vs ?$3.50 @ gallon. The biggest burner they offered was a 3.5gph burner and it was about $ 1,000 or $ 550 reman.

Sounds like to me you need a burner expert to adjust your burner. I don't know hardly anything about oil, but your burner isn't working properly.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I have a feeling Im going to be boiling alot of water this off season. I think I can do alot to improve what I have. If you can remember the make of the coversion put it on a post for me. Thanks

[Haynes Forest Products]

Please dont tell me Im the only one thinking this

[troes30]

i'm new at this waste oil idea, but definately intriqued. i'm going to switch my vacuum pump over to electric through a generator. does anyone know if i can run my generator off waste oil, and what do i need to do this. I imagine filtering, but do i need to het it before it enters the motor? any info will be appreciated.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Might want to get a good oil man to setup your burner. You will spend a lot of $$$ fast boiling water to get the burner working correctly. $ 70 to $ 80 should pay aprox what a service call costs to get the burner adjusted and working properly.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I take it you have a diesel generator i think waste oil would kill it I dont think you can ever fillter out the bad stuff thats why most waste oil burners dont pressureize into a nozzel they atomize with air. Waste oil would ruin the pump and injectors

[maple flats]

In NYS there is a producer near me who put in a waste oil burner on his evap. Then the DEC came and said he could only burn (X) gallons of waste oil per season, but I am not sure what that number is. The point is that he was regulated and could not just burn the waste oil as he wanted, in a burner that was designed to burn waste oil. My brother has a waste oil boiler to heat his house but he has a hard time finding enough oil. The small guys are glad to supply him but the big places say their insurance says they must have it hauled by a certified re cycler of oil, they must pay to have it hauled instead of giving it to my brother. His burner must use heated oil in the colder weather, and it has an air compressor build into the pump assembly to inject air with the oil.

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

I am with haynes i dont think you can run waste oil thru an injector pump

RICH

[Haynes Forest Products]

Mapleflats
Could you post the manufacture of the oil burner There are alot of snake oil salesmen out there. I dont want to be a oil burner teck during sap season Thanks Chuck

[brookledge]

I Mass you need to be a registered collection site with the DEP to collect used oil if you don't generate your own. To do it legally it would be alot of hoops to jump through. And remember the customer in most cases comes to your sugar house. You never know if someone might report you anonymously if they see something illegal going on. If you want to heat your house or garage where nobody comes to visit then the odds of getting caught is less likely.
Dealing with environmental agencies can be costly in fines if it is not done properly.
I commend anyone looking to save some $ How ever I suggest in the maple syrup business you don't try to sneak around the laws with used waste oil.

As for using waste oil I would think that it would be better to have a waste oil burner heating water to steam and then using steam pans like Bascom does. That way the waste oil and burner can be in a remote location no where near the sap and syrup.
Keith

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Oil is oil and regardless of whether it is waste oil or regular oil, it don't mix with syrup period. The term waste oil makes it sound worse than it is. It is all really nasty stuff when in comparision to food products and if you handle it the same way you do regular heating oil, it shouldn't make any difference on which you use to boil syrup with.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

post edited

[tapper]

I have been close enough to waste oil being used to know that I would not want it any where near my syrup pruduction. It is an inexpensive way to make heat but, it is very very messy and very time consuming to collect and filter well enough to be used.
Every drum or can has to be filtered before going into your supply tank. We have collected drums with everything imaginable in them from dirt to gasoline, antifreeze, water and even plastic beads from an injection mold plant that was giving us the oil.
The drums or cans need to be handled 2 or 3 times and wheather you are pouring or pumping into the supply tank some always gets spilled. Keep oil diapers handy. The bottom of your supply tank will sludge up and the burner will require hours of cleaning and maintenance because all the crap just wont filter out of this stuff. Unless your supply tank is in a heated room the oil will be so thick it wont even pump to the burner.
I am not trying to discourage any of you guys from trying this. I am passing on what I know about using waste oil and it is a messy deal. You can buy waste oil that has been filtered but you are right back to paying and you still have to handle the stuff. A lot of what we pay for today is convenience and if you are willing to create your own convenience waste oil will work for you.

[troes30]

it sounds like you guys say the waste oil thing is out for my diesel generator. but how about vegetable oil? someone told me today i need a whole filtering system that heats and add chemicals. i guess you can get them on ebay for like 2 grand. i havent checked yet. people run it in the vehicles so it seems like it would run a generator motor. but im no expert. help please.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I dont understand why your going to take a gas motor off yor pump and then put a electric motor on it and then run it with diesel motor. I understand that Vacuum pumps are hard to start when cold. I solved that problem with a simple clutch made buy the use of a idler pully on a lever and that allows you to start the motor up and let it warm up and then engage the pump works great.

[troes30]

the main reason is so i can install a thermostat....my pump is 20 miles away and 1200 feet off the road...I'm makin too many trips up there to first start the pump, then haul sap

[Haynes Forest Products]

So your going to have a termostat turn on the generator that runs the vacuum pump. I like it but I dont think waste oil is the way to go. A diesel generator is about as cheap a way to go without the complications of waste oil.
There is nothing more maddening than starting a piece of equipment and then walking half way out of the woods just to hear it quit and then to go back again to start it. Its like my wife not taking her cell phone when she gos on a sap run. A comes back and tells me she cant start the pump. Grrrrrrrrr
This is the struggle Im having is becoming so dependant on all the equipment and not spending quality time with that shiney evaporator that we all love and cherish.

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

TROES i dont think it will be feasable to set up a diesel to burn waste oil in the woods

RICH

[CityMaple]

i run waste vegie in my truck. cold+not attended=not good.

[troes30]

once i start the generator in the beginning of the season it will run straight through. the thermostat will start the pump when necessary. this way i will have power all the time to run things such as heat lamps, and heating cord to keep the fuel warm. thats my thought anyway. my releaser is on top of my tank now which is about 6' high. i plan on lowering my releaser to the floor and dumping into a barrel in the floor with a sump pump in it. this will give me that much more slope on my mainlines...slope is a problem in my woods. i figured i am goin to spend the same on diesel as i did on gas but now with electric back there I can do all the other things.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Its all coming together. I just think running the generator all the time so you dont have to walk back into the woods. Its spells disaster in my book without constant checking and maintance dont you end up walking the woods checking vac pressure, lines down ,checking oil, vacuum pump cooling. Im thinking this is the time to get that 4 wheeler

[troes30]

the generator will run all the time to ensure the thermostat starts the pump when it warms up...its not so I dont have to walk back there. it helps with that a little but i'll still be back there alot. i just hate it when its 28 at home and i get to the woods and its 32 and the saps been trickling in to the releaser for 2 hours with no vacuum on. when there 2-3 thousand taps a couple of hours with sap not movin coukd be a few hundred gallons of sap. anyway, waste oil. i spend like 6-800 in gas now...i figured if im gonna do that i might as well have electric back there so i can fix some of my other problems like the auto start and pipes freezing. maybe i should make a waterwheel to run my pump like a neighbor of mine...ha

[Haynes Forest Products]

How far is the power lines from thr woods? sounds like you need to plan for the long term cost. Having power in the woods today and not paying 6-800 every year. I just think when you start to depend on all the lights,heat lamps,thermostats,diesel engines,sump pump. All it takes is one to fail and your screwd. If your system is gravity first and vacuum second than your going to get sap. But if you depend on a sump pump to transfer from a small tank to the bulk tank and you sleep in.....
.......
...........
down the drain
on the ground
in the dirt

[troes30]

power is 1000 feet away. i agree with you, break down risk is there. you see i go through my uncles land to get to ours...so theres no road or anything...yet. im just brainstormin...the best situation would be build a road and bring power in, but thats a major cost. maybe i should just tap with buckets.

[brookledge]

What you could do is put your vacuum pump where you have power and then run a vacuum line 1,000 feet to where you were going to put your generator. In the long run it will be cheaper.
Keith

[Haynes Forest Products]

Im still in the planning stages of using waste oil for my evaporator. Is there anyone out there that is or has used waste oil? Plus would like to know what make conversion you used?

[maplwrks]

I don't know about Wisconsin, but here in Vermont it is against the law to produce a food product with used motor oil!!! There's a little more to a waste oil furnace than a special gun---I don't think they are built like evaporators either. I know that there are people that say you can burn a "blend" of fuel and used oil, but it is still illegal here.

[VtSugarhouse]

Mike, You are 100% correct it is illegal to produce maple syrup with any type of waste oil or a blend of such.
Maple Syrup is a food product and does have restrictions. Glad to see there are other sugar makers which take this serious.

[CityMaple]

well the whole ideia is to keep the fuel and byproducts of combustion out of the syrup no matter what type it is. i service oil burners and the soot from #2 fuel is rather filthy, have to use hepa filters to clean out of the combustion chamber. so in that lite what is a little more contaminance gonna do if you burn drain oil?? ever see the sludge that accumulates in your #2 fuel oil filter?? the pan is sealed from the fire box right???? the gases go up the stack, other wise we would choke even when using regular fuel oil.... so unless we give up burning oil all together to cut down the risk..... that leaves wood, last i knew they used to make lye by mixing wood ash and water so if we really get picky and pure about it probably we cant use wood as a fuel either because some ash can get up in the syrup. oh but thats right the fire box is suposed to be sealed so that isnt suposed to happen. waste oil is as good a fuel as any when burned properly, with a burner designed to do so, not by blending or thoes cheap ebay conversion kits. BUT if it is not legal in your state certainly adhear to the silly laws that they want us to follow. well that is only my 2cents.

[brookledge]

I still say the way to go with waste oil is a remote boiler that turns water into steam and then pipe the steam to a steam evaporator like Bascom has. There flat pan will turn out about 100 gal of syrup per hour with concentrate. That way the waste oil burner is seperate from the evaporator. And what little I know about waste oil burners I think a boiler would work better than trying to get the waste oil nozzle to spray a long flame that is needed in an evaporator.
Keith

[Haynes Forest Products]

Thanks Citymaple
Im not worried about the contamination into the syrup. There is no way with the draw of the arch and the draw of the steam hood that the two could mix.
What i see other producers shoving in there arches,creasote soaked rr ties, shingles. One guy starts all his fires with feed bags full of old tubing and mainline. and you cant smell a thing and I cant smell oil in my sugar shack when im dumping 9 GPH of #2. So call if you do it let me know how it works. 303 810 5501

[jrthe3]

I have put a lot of research into this and found that there is two companies that make waste oil burnners for furnace they look like a fuel oil burnner but can fire on strait used motor oil or veggi oil or tranny oil or fuel oil i have talked to sales men from both copanies and they will sell me just a burnner to put in my evaporator all they need is 110 v oil and compressed air i have one of the heaters in the shop i work in it work great now all i need is to find a source of used oil

[jrthe3]

if burnning fuel oil to make syrup is ok what is the differance between it and used oil

[markcasper]

I suppose there will be a technical expert soon to tell everyone. I think it has something to do with used oil making carcinogens when burned. The used oil has all of the sudden gotten contaminated with harmful elements after it is used. Another thing- used oil generally doesn't generate any economic activity growth after it is drained from an engine, therefore it is illegal. There can no longer be any tax growth on "end of the line" oil.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Jrthe
What the heck are you doing up so late? I spent about a week on the web trying to cut to the chase about waste oil burners and Im down to about 3 companys that sound like they know what there takling about. Good guys to talk to and didnt try and close the deal over the phone. the best that Im hearing is about 400000 BTUs but the problem I see is the length of the flame. Thats why Im here asking.

[Haynes Forest Products]

From what i see on waste oil web sites is they encurage you to burn waste oil to get rid of it. They talk about how clean it burns ......Hotter than #2.

[jrthe3]

i work 3rd shift and if you don't tell my boss i am on on companie time
which ones did you find i talked to clean burn and lanair the man from clean burn told me if you put the right air pressure to the burnner you could make the flame as long or as short as you want but have to balance air and oil

[jrthe3]

good thing your not trying to do it in CA. cause burnning used oil is know to the state of CA. to cause cancer did they ever think it is the air out there that causes the cancer

[Haynes Forest Products]

jrthe
California just outlawed Milar ballons so im I dont need them telling what i can do in wisc. The 3 companies I spent the most time talking were

AgSolutions 500,000 btu burner around 2500.00 owner Anthony Taylor

Econo Heat 350,000 btu 2800.00 sales Bill Gumm

Oregon Commercial heating 1800.00 Ray Thompson

All sounded well versed on the subject and helpful My main concern is the reliability I can get the oil, filter it and warm it. I just dont need to become a oil heat teck when sap season is in full swing.

[Haynes Forest Products]

jrthe3
Just got off the phone with Lanair Thanks for the lead. Sounds promising they have a 320,000 BTU unit that sells for 599.00 without trade and 100,00 if you trade in a unit. Burns waste oil and has a preheater on it you only have to supply 30psi air. So far this is the best thing going. At that price I could put two in.

[jrthe3]

H F P did you talk to clean burn i worked alot with the sales man and the tech when we got the furnace and when they installed it they seem to know alot and the units seem to work the best i know alot of guys that use there furnace in there shops never had any big prop.

[Haynes Forest Products]

jrthe
I talked to matt and he was very helpful. First I like the price 600.00 for a 320,000 BTU. Just looking at it it looks like they started from scratch on the gun not a reworked conversion. Now for the wierd part a friend that helps me with my hobby has a welding shop in Janesville Wisc. Im telling him about a company that i just talked to. I tell him the name and it turns out thair across the street from his shop. Armed with a bottle of Syrup Im sure we will be getting this worked out. So thanks again.

[jrthe3]

H F P keep me posted on how it works and you do it let me know how much used oil you use conpared to fuel oil my next rig will be oil

[mapleman3]

Have you ever had your burner setup?? You may be not having the flame burning efficiently, I tuned mine last year it did pretty good, this year I teaked it more and...adjusted my insulation undr the flue pan so all of the flame was up in the flues with less area for escape towards the rear... I got more gph cuz I dropped my stack temp 100 degs. and yes you NEED a barometric damper... what that does is bring in cold air into the flue pipe after the evap and that allows the evaporator to hold the BTUs more so as to not get "sucked" up the flue from draft.

The mfg of your evap should have guidlines to what you should be running for nozzle size, draft, stack temp, O2 and CO2% etc. once you know them it's easy to talk to an oil guy and barter some syrup for him to come and setup the burner to the specs or to the best eff. he can


I would love to do UVO but I'm sure it will get scarce once everyone else has the same idea for their needs be it a diesel truck or house heating system.

Not to get too political here but the candidates need to be discussing what to do about the futures trading of crude and also talk about new refineries if anyone wants to get the prices down.... NO ONE wants to go there...WHY????????????????????????

[Haynes Forest Products]

Mapleman 3
I will be boiling alot of water this summer to get thing set up right. I will have a damper and more fire blanket in the arch. I do have about 1" clearance under the flues. Could it be closer and more slope on the sides closer to the outer drop flues? When we set this up 4 years ago I was happy to get the rig going I didnt think much about the oil usage at 1.35 per gal now at 3.65 Im going broke. I do thank you for the imput it all helps. Garth from Maple Pro was the one that helped me with design. We calculate that Im using 1million 2hundred fifty thousand BTUs per hr. My stack temp was at 400 and with a 3X10 im doing about 140 GPH so Im doing good on the boiling just uses alot of oil.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have a waste oil burner dealer about a mile from my house. I looked at one vs the inferno arch. The highest gph nozzle it will handle is 3.5 gph and the burner runs around $ 500 reman and $ 1000 new. I forwarded up some of the info to Kevin(maplehill) a couple of years ago.

I watched one in action, and I see no reason why it wouldn't work. The burner had been used at least 2 years and maybe much longer, and the insulation was nice and white and the only thing you could see was a tiny, tiny bit of metalic deposits on the bottom. I am not certain, but I believe this burner supplied its own air and didn't require any seperate air, but I could be wrong.

Nozzles were $ 28 @ the time.

[Haynes Forest Products]

WVM
The guns Im most impressed with some have small air compressors and others you need to supply your own. I have a Puregas air comp that is rated continues duty that can run all day and supply air to the burner.It was used to supply air to phone lines thru a air dryer. Im getting closer all the time to the waste oil conversion. Linare of Janesville Wisc has a 320,000 BTU unit that goes for 599.00 and I figure on using two of them.

[lpakiz]

Some years ago I worked in a diesel truck shop that used waste oil for heat. I forget the brand name of the heater we used, (Lanair or Black gold?) but it had it's own small air compressor, built-in on the end of the combustion air blower. This worked fine, but the whine from it drove us nuts. I plumbed a 1/4 nylon brake tubing from the main shop air compressor over to the burner. Can't remember exactly how I plumbed it in, but it worked fine. I believe I had to use a pressure regulator, as the shop pressure was 150PSI--to much for this unit. The main compressor had a hundred gallon pressure tank, so if only the furnace used air, it would kick on less than once per hour. We let it run day and night. I do remember that this burner had it's own preheaters for the oil. These were elements that straddled the nozzle, and would heat the oil up before it was sprayed into the combustion chamber. I also remember that when it was real cold outside, the heaters could not heat the oil enough, and less oil would be injected into the comb chamber. AS less and less heat was produced, the temp in the shop fell, the oil got thicker, and less and less oil was being injected. We finally had to wrap the supply line with heat tape and insulation to help the preheaters with their job.

[tyrod2]

WVM
The guns Im most impressed with some have small air compressors and others you need to supply your own. I have a Puregas air comp that is rated continues duty that can run all day and supply air to the burner.It was used to supply air to phone lines thru a air dryer. Im getting closer all the time to the waste oil conversion. Linare of Janesville Wisc has a 320,000 BTU unit that goes for 599.00 and I figure on using two of them.

Hello WVM
Do you think one of theas burners would work on my 2x6 Waterloo? I wrote to the company and thay did not answer me yet.Want to find a dealer hear in Ohio.A friend of mine can get all the used oil I need.I Have my on air comp. supply system . Tired of cutting all that wood for the house and the evaporator. tyrod2

[CityMaple]

H F P maby i missed somthing, but you calculated that you are using 1.2 mil btu to fire your rig?? so how are you going to achieve that with 2 320,000 btu burners??

[Haynes Forest Products]

City maple
Im in the planing stages at this point. First I think my rig is all out of ballance. It reminds me of my truck I was driving around with a check engine lite on for about a month and when I replaced the mass air senser my milage per tank went up 75 miles. Now with that said I think million two is way to much heat for a 3X10. With 2 guns putting 650,000 BTUs into the arch with a baremetric damper and longer stack better preheater who knows. I dont even mind droping my GPH down a little as long as I dont have to help the oil man back down my driveway every 3 days at the tune of $750.00 and soon to be $900.00.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Ronnie
If you can get all the waste oil you want then this is the way to go. I bit of caution is do not store more than 500 gallons your property at one time. Feds and state can come along and make you put in a containment system. Oil drums full of oil can bring unwanted intrest. You will need to set up a transfer pump with filters. You want your oil sourse near the burner so oil lines dont get to cold. Drum heater on the tank will keep oil flowing. Used motor oil is alot thicker than #2 diesel so in the cold it wont flow to the gun without help. Lanair out of wisc 1 800 7531601 talked to matt. Did I hear you right when you said you wrote to someone.......................how does that work? I havent heard of doing that before LOL

[Haynes Forest Products]

Ipakiz
Im finding out about the drawbacks to waste oil. Preheating the oil is the key to keeping things running. I have this great looking 100 square stainless tank that fits in the corner of the evaporator room and that will be the preheater oil tank I will use a heat exchanger from the arch to both heat and recirculate the oil so it stays blended. I think the key is to start the prosses with #2 oil and then when the rig is up and running switch to waste oil. In Brazil the cars start on regular gas and then switch to ethenal so the problems can be overcome. With all the heat that the evaporator generates i want to put it to use.

[tyrod2]

WVM
I emailed Linare Website and asked for the nearest dealer.NO REPLY I think I better call them. LOL

[lpakiz]

HFP,
Yes, I think you are on the right track. If our shop was warm, the waste oil furnace worked fine. Preheat and filter....
Our storage tank was a "work bench" 14 feet long, 3 feet deep and countertop high (36 inches?) We had a half barrel next to it with a pump in it. When we drained a truck (14 GALLONS sometime) we could dump the drain pan into the 1/2 barrel and pump it into the storage tank. We also had a silo tank outside for over-summer storage. This same transfer pump would take it outside and into the silo too. When the oil was properly warm, it worked fine. And there are more BTUs in a gallon of drain oil than a gallon of #2 fuel.
Good Luck!!
Larry

[Haynes Forest Products]

If I aint coplicatin it I aint havin fun. Im sure we will be having alot more over the web R+D Thanks

[jrthe3]

Haynes have you done any more with the used oil idea

[Haynes Forest Products]

No i havent I spent time over the 4th of July boiling water and we added flue stack and changed the fire blanket and went to a 6 GPH nozel. I think we are going in the right direction. Im going to bite the bullet and go another year with #2 oil and make some more changes. I have a flue damper thats going on the stack and hope that helps with the fuel savings. Im in the prosses of making a new preheater setup that i hope will have the sap going into the float box at 180 degrees. The problem I have is I live in Colo. and have 2 weeks to fix all sap lines and tap my trees clean and set up the entire operation. I also must get 2 gocarts and a tractor running from sitting over the winter set up the releasers,vacuum pumps sap hauler,and still have time to help open up the cabin unpack and visit friends so I dont have alot of time to fuss with setting up the waste oil this year Im thinking next year will either break my back with fuel cost or make the change. Last year we made 150 gallons top grade had time to bottle 50 and wholesale 100 so it does get hectic but its the best 10 days in the eye of the storm.Oh I forgot clean lines and pull taps.

[jrthe3]

Haynes sounds like you mite be on to some thing there i was thinking of running a little used oil in fire box ontop of the wood to get a little more heat out of it

Hayenes you must got the bug bad to travel that far just to make syrup when i was looking at buying i new house that was the first think it had to be 30 min or less to sugar house befor i would even look at it

[Haynes Forest Products]

jrthe3 Its a long and winding road I used to live in Chicago and spent most of my time in Door County Wisc. I was a long haired hippie wana be and spent most of my time in my 64 VW bus I paid 2000.00 for 7 acres to park on and then built a log cabin that I rent out most of the summer and use it for vacations and during maple season. Have been going back every year for the past 29 years. I think I would move back before I would sell it Like the maple syrup bug it gets you before you know what your getting into. I had land a chain saw and alot of logs and before I knew it 6 years later I had a cabin.
Just Google ( haynes cabin ) and im the top listing sure beats a VW bus.

[GeneralStark]

Mike, You are 100% correct it is illegal to produce maple syrup with any type of waste oil or a blend of such.
Maple Syrup is a food product and does have restrictions. Glad to see there are other sugar makers which take this serious.

Any ideas on how the VT Ag. Dept. feels about using Waste Vegetable Oil for producing Maple Syrup?

I am involved in a sugaring operation that is now using a 40 Horsepower industrial boiler to produce steam to power two steam pans. The burner we are using is capable of burning used motor oil as we have set up a steam heated heat exchanger to heat the fuel as well as an electric fuel heater.

We can burn heating oil, waste motor oil, used veg. oil, new veg. oil, and other thicker oils. I understand the regs. in regards to waste motor oil, but how about these other oils? It seems to me that with steam it does not matter what fuel you are using in the boiler as the flame is no where near the syrup pans. Our pans are in a separate building.

Anyone know where I can find the regs. online?

[brookledge]

I would think that as long as you are using waste oil in a remote location such as a boiler to make steam and then transfer that steam to the evaporator it should be fine. That way there is no hazardous materials near the evaporator period.
But really what is the difference from burning used oil vs heating oil. Both of them are petroleum and would ruin the syrup should the two mix.
Keith

[Thad Blaisdell]

You are not using any of those fuels to heat the syrup. You would be fine. Your heat source is steam. I would say there is no issue.

[diehlhollowmaple]

We have used waste oil exclusively in a 3x10 the last 2 seasons. It took a lot of trial and error to get to the point of making it work. We don't use compressed air as does a commercial waste oil burner. The key is to get the oil clean and hot and it will run through a regular oil burner. There are problems since it is a "waste" product, filtering the oil and removing water and antifreeze is one. Cold oil won't flow well at all and the oil gun gets a buildup of "tar" on it, plus handling oil is a messie job. Once the oil is hot 160-200 degrees, it burns very clean. However, if you can find enough oil, its less work than cutting wood.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Plus I understand that waste oil has more BTU's than diesel. Keep the synthetic out of the system.