Steam Tray Budget Evaporators - New Size Double Pans

[Axle54]

I am about as budget as you can get with my block arch and three full size steam pans. Making it an almost 2x3
They worked great and were able to blow off 50 gallons of sap in a day. Was looking to increase in size a little and add another full size pan. From 2x3 to 2x4
Discovered that they now have a new "Double Size Steam Pan" twice as large (in width as full size pan) This can be a simple way for beginners/small operations to get started. Only 60 bucks.
So for all the steam pan guys out there has anybody used a "Double Steam Pan" in their evaporators ? Any disadvantages ?

Specs below.

Length 25 9/16 Inches
Width 20 7/8 Inches
Depth 8 Inches or 4 inches
Capacity 60.7 qt. for 8 inch
Color Silver
Features Anti-Jam Corners
Gauge 22 Gauge
Size Double
Stainless Steel Type Type 300

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/vollrath-v211001-double-wide-stainless-steel-steam-table-hotel-pan-4-deep/922V211001.html

Any ideas , theories , suggestions appreciated.

[Cjadamec]

If you shop for the steam pans on Amazon you can fin full size 6" deep pans for less than 20 per pan.

I managed to get 5 pans in my oil tank evaporator. They get the job done.

[Muddy Bottoms]

Webstaraunt.com (check spelling) has them around 13$. Full size, not the double wide. I got sick of using a ladle so just upgraded to a 2x6.

[Axle54]

Yes those of us with steam pans become expert ladelers. Thats why i figured the double size pans would make that a little easier. Might try one this year. I am a little worried about warping with the double size though.

[Helicopter Seeds]

Your surface area for a double pan is more than twice a single... Some area is lost between pans at the rim. Also have less area to block between pans. I had five pans, and set up plates in between, layed a perlite/ clay concrete around them to keep the heat at the bottom. I never fired it up that way as I got the CDL pan a few days later. I still use one pan for preheating, since I already had the brick arch built and it fit. I would give this double a consideration, not bad surface area pan for the money.

[Axle54]

My pans lay down on the block. This exposes the sides to the fire and heat. Really gets boiling hard, but do get scorching on the sides. Doesn't seem to affect flavor but syrup is dark. Each pan acts as s large drop flue almost. The double sized pan will cut back on the scorching some. Well see. Deep freeze is coming.

[Wannabe]

Looks like those double pans are only 4" deep. Sometimes the 6" full size pans don't seem deep enough when I get a good boil going.

[Axle54]

They have an 8" deep double one but not a 6". I dont know if that will sit too far down into my block evaporator or not. But it holds a lot of sap 60 qts. to the top running it half full would still be 30 qts. But a lot of surface area compared to a standard pan.

Overall Dimensions:
Length: 25 9/16"
Width: 20 7/8"
Depth: 8"
Brim-Full Capacity: 60.7 quarts

[Thegreg20]

Where did you find those pans? I can only find 4" deep

[Axle54]

Where did you find those pans? I can only find 4" deep

Webstaurant store.. bought the 8 inch deep double.

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/vollrath-92082-super-pan-3-double-full-size-anti-jam-stainless-steel-steam-table-hotel-pan-8-deep/92292082.html

The picture shows the 4 inch one. But rest assured you get the 8 inch deep
It's a big one. Well see how it works out his year. 80 bucks delivered

[Conococheague]

I use 4 of the doubles that are 8" deep and I love them. I have a very large pan that I bent and welded up myself but the stainless sheet that I used is closer to .063" thick and it takes a tad longer to get it going and with the stainless but around the top I added as a handle it is heavy. I love them all. I was a little disheartened on one of my boils when I noticed the sides warping during the boil. However, once I was done and the pans cooled they returned to their original, perfect shape. I had two then I bought two more last year when I thought they were discontinuing that size. I use them all. I don't need any more but I'm glad to see that they are still available. Mine are Volraith and I bought mine on Amazon. Don't remember what I paid.

[Axle54]

Good to hear that u had sucess with double pans. But you say you run 4 of them. Thats 8 foot long. Or 4x4 depending how u have it setup.
Any input on your setup is appreciated sounds interesting.

[Conococheague]

I'm having a hard time finding the Vollrath double pans (roughly 2' x 2' x 8"). My old sources either say discontinued or don't list them at all. I'm pretty sure the model number was 92082. I have 4 of them - some of them are showing their age and use and I was thinking of buying a couple more as spares or for a new arch I'm considering designing. If anyone has purchased these recently, could you share your source? Thanks.

Conocheague

[Openwater]

I need some advice from anyone that boils in steam pans. I just built an evaporator out of a file cabinet which I have yet to use. I have 2 used full size 4" steam pans and a new 6" deep pan and 1 small 1/3 size pan. The top of the evaporator is only about 12" wide, but I can fit the 2 normal sized pans end-to-end and the 1/3-sized pan over the opening. I was planning on using the 1/3 sized as a prewarmer in the back and the 2 normal sized pans for boiling. What would be the best way to fill/load the 2 boiling pans? Should I just transfer sap from the prewarmer pan to the other 2 big pans individually, or would it be better to transfer sap to 1 big pan and then the next big pan, essentially using 1 as a boiling pan and the other as a finisher. I can post some pictures later if it would help.
Thanks
2187821877

[Gord]

I found this place. I wanted to add a warming pan to my evaporator. Good prices, but expensive shipping. Warming pan works great though!

https://www.hotelrestaurantsupply.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=SEARCH&q=steam+table+pan

[Pdiamond]

Openwater,
How I have seen it done is how you have it set up. Using the smaller pan as the warmer other two for boiling. I would hope you are using a ladle when you discuss transferring sap from one pan to the other.

[DRoseum]

Since your small pan fits in the main arch and not over the other pans, it might be boiling more than just warming. If that's the case it might be worth using it in the front as a finishing pan.

[Openwater]

I assumed the back of the arch where the smaller pan is would be the "coolest", but not sure yet. I guess it all depends how fast the two big pans boil-off. I'm planning on keeping a pretty constant drip/flow into the warming pan from the bucket on the "shelf" which I figured would keep it from boiling too hard.
So, do you recommend maintaining both big pans with the same concentration of syurp? Or transfering/ladling sequentially from warmer to pan1 to pan2? I'm still planning on finishing in a pot on a stovetop.

[Gord]

2187821877

Openwater, That's a really nice looking set up!!

[berkshires]

I assumed the back of the arch where the smaller pan is would be the "coolest", but not sure yet. I guess it all depends how fast the two big pans boil-off. I'm planning on keeping a pretty constant drip/flow into the warming pan from the bucket on the "shelf" which I figured would keep it from boiling too hard.
So, do you recommend maintaining both big pans with the same concentration of syurp? Or transfering/ladling sequentially from warmer to pan1 to pan2? I'm still planning on finishing in a pot on a stovetop.

I think you won't know for sure which end is the hottest until you run it. A lot of times the very front is actually the coolest, because the middle of the fire is a few inches back, and the hot gasses are being pulled back from there.

Forget about a warming pan. If you can maintain a boil in all your pans you will boil off more gallons per hour than you would having a small pan doing nothing but warming things up. Then you want to ladle in sequence from the pan where the sap enters to the next pan, and from that pan to the next pan. Here's what I'd do if I were you:

[-][------][------]

Where the small pan is on the front, and the two big pans are on the back. Then you'll trickle into the back pan, which, with its large size should retain a boil. Then you'll ladle from back to middle, and from middle to front. Your front will be the syrup pan.

So the flow would look something like this:

[-] <-- [------] <-- [------] <--- trickle in from tank.

Does that make sense?

GO

[Openwater]

Got it. Would you anticipate a capacity problem in the final little pan at the end of the boil? I assume that little pan will get alot more than 2" deep towards the end. I'm not sure what it's actual volume/capacity is, but I'm planning on boiling 35-40 gallons at a time. I'm sure after this first run, I'll have a lot better feel for the specifics; just might take some trial and error.

Thanks Gord!
Pretty amazing what you can do with an old free file cabinet and some old rusty angle iron.

[MapleLady]

I boil on a block arch with steam table pans. My back pan closest to the stack always boils the hardest. My front pan, nearest the door, seems to be the last to reach a fast boil - probably because it looses temperature when I add wood.

I do like the look of your set-up, using the old file cabinet. Have you lined it with fire brick? You will have to keep us posted on how well it does.

[berkshires]

Got it. Would you anticipate a capacity problem in the final little pan at the end of the boil? I assume that little pan will get alot more than 2" deep towards the end.

You should be able to keep the level the same throughout the boil. If it starts to foam up, and you think you're getting close to syrup, you could ladle some of it out of that pan and into a bucket (or the pot you plan to use to take it to syrup) and then back-fill with sap from the middle pan. Think of it as kind of a poor-man's continuous pan, where you might start "drawing" syrup or near-syrup if it gets dense in your syrup pan.

Gabe

[berkshires]

I assume that little pan will get alot more than 2" deep towards the end. I'm not sure what it's actual volume/capacity is, but I'm planning on boiling 35-40 gallons at a time.

Here's what I'm thinking on this - correct me if I'm wrong:

Assuming all but a few gallons of your sap eventually works its way into your front pan by the end of a boil, you're looking at maybe 3/4 of a gallon of syrup by the time you're done. A gallon is 231 cubic inches. The 1/3 pan is something like 12"x6", right? So that's 72 cubic inches per inch of syrup in the pan. 3/4 of a gallon would be 173 cubic inches, or about 2.5" in your little pan.

So that's not too far off. I would still be prepared to ladle it into another container and back-fill, but you shouldn't have to do that too much, unless you wind up with much more sap. And honestly, with 50 taps, you probably will at some point!

Cheers,

GO

[Openwater]

I just measured my little pan - a gallon of water is just about right at the top of the pan.
Today I collected 18 more gallons of sap, so I got about 31 gallons in storage and if I collect another 10+ gallons tomorrow, I should have more than 40 gallons to boil on Sunday.
Sugar on both the walnut and red maples was 2.0%.
Originally I lined the entire inside of my evaporator with 1/2" cement board, mainly to give it a little more structural support and later decided to add the firebrick and mineral wool. When I was constructing, I didn't know anything about ceramic cloth.
21879

[Sugar Bear]

I just measured my little pan - a gallon of water is just about right at the top of the pan.
Today I collected 18 more gallons of sap, so I got about 31 gallons in storage and if I collect another 10+ gallons tomorrow, I should have more than 40 gallons to boil on Sunday.
Sugar on both the walnut and red maples was 2.0%.
Originally I lined the entire inside of my evaporator with 1/2" cement board, mainly to give it a little more structural support and later decided to add the firebrick and mineral wool. When I was constructing, I didn't know anything about ceramic cloth.
21879

Are you mixing your walnut sap and red maple sap together or boiling separately?

[berkshires]

I just measured my little pan - a gallon of water is just about right at the top of the pan.
Today I collected 18 more gallons of sap, so I got about 31 gallons in storage and if I collect another 10+ gallons tomorrow, I should have more than 40 gallons to boil on Sunday.


Wow that is little! I think it still might work if you just ladle it out when it gets dense. But you will soon enough be the expert on your specific setup.

Sounds like you're about ready to go. Good luck!

GO

[Openwater]

I'm planning on boiling both the walnut and maple sap together. Depending how much maple sap I have, I might run it thru the RO5 before boiling. I don't want to end up with a 12 hr boil and clean up on Superbowl Sunday.

[Openwater]

Well, learned alot from the first boil yesterday.
Started with 58 gallons, RO'ed down to 33 gallons to boil which took about 10 hrs; still have to finish on stove today.
My nice new "evaporator" is now a charred mess as are the pans.
The pans are only 4" deep, so I had a lot of boil-overs after stoking the fire each time, but learned we could avoid the boil-overs (and control the heat being applied) by adjusting the speed control on the AUF blower fan; thank goodness I put a dimmer switch on it.

For next time:
1. We have (3) 30 gallon SS stock pots we had used for brewing beer which will now be employed to "pre-boil" on propane burner before being added to evaporator pans.
2. Will switch to at least (1) 6" deep steam pan on evaporator. Back of arch is too shallow to put a 6" pan on back before the stack.
3. Recruit more crew to help with the constant foam skimming.
4. Don't underestimate how long it will take to process 58 gallons of sap into syrup.

Any tips, suggestions or advice, let me know.

[Pdiamond]

Try using canola oil for the foam issue. Just a couple of drops will knock it down. I use a ketchup dispenser like you see in a restaurant with the long neck, makes it easy to control the amount of oil. Getting the deeper pans will also help. Anyway you can make it deeper for another pan in the back.

[Openwater]

Any ideas on how to get the black scorched char off the edge of pans? I asked my wife, and she just set out a can of Easy-Off oven cleaner beside my mess in the garage.

[DRoseum]

Vinegar. Then vinegar and no-soap scrub pad if needed

[Pdiamond]

Inside or outside? if inside do not use any type of soap as DRoseum stated. If on the outside anything that will get it off.

[Openwater]

char/scorch line inside pan, mainly along top inside edge.
What happens if you try to clean pans w/soap or detergent?

[maple flats]

The double wide pans the OP linked to in the first post on this thread are too shallow. Some people use 6" deep, much better 8" deep (my syrup pan is 12" deep.)

[wobbletop]

I've used a nylon cup brush on a drill to clean pans.

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/mastercraft-nylon-cup-brush-2-3-4-in-0541352p.html#srp

[Openwater]

Do any of you steam-panners skim your foam during a boil w/a strainer? Or do you use defoamer? I've usually used a mesh strainer to skim foam during a boil, but I'm wondering if using the de-foamer will alleviate the need to skim foam.

[Balrog006]

Do any of you steam-panners skim your foam during a boil w/a strainer? Or do you use defoamer? I've usually used a mesh strainer to skim foam during a boil, but I'm wondering if using the de-foamer will alleviate the need to skim foam.

I use a defoamer in my 2 vollrath pans in my hobby barrel evaporator. Butter actually, it works well.

[Wannabe]

SMALL drops of vegetable/canola oil works well also.

[Buffalo Plaid]

char/scorch line inside pan, mainly along top inside edge.
What happens if you try to clean pans w/soap or detergent?
If you don't get all of the soap off the pan (and you won't) it will end up concentrated in your syrup giving it an off flavor.

[Openwater]

Made alot of improvements yesterday boiling 48 gallons of sap (77gal before RO). Going from 4" to 6" deep pans definitely allowed us to boil harder/faster w/o worrying about the boil-overs and the defoamer helped alot as well; no more constant foam skimming.
We also used a 30 gallon brewing pot as our "dosing tank" on a propane burner so we were adding 200deg F sap to the pans instead of cold sap. There was also quite a bit of evaporation occurring in the the 30 gallon pot.
We probably averaged about 6 gal per hr evap rate.
Now, wanting to always make improvements, we are wondering if it would be possible to put a continuous flow channel pan on the evaporator. The opening in the angle-iron edges on the top is 11 3/4" x 48". Obviously, this would need to be a custom fabricated pan, but we weren't sure if it would even be possible with only a 11 3/4" width.
See pics of evaporator below.
Any advice, tips or suggestions about custom fabricators, let me know.
220642206522066

[PeterHolmes]

For cleaning the burned stuff off the steam-tray pans, I recommend a spray product by Sprayway called "Grill an Oven Cleaner".
On the label it says "Institutional Strength" It is yellow spray can with a white top.

It is like an EasyOff-type product. Directions recommend (when using it to clean an oven) that you first heat the oven to 200 degrees (F), then spray it and let it sit and do its thing. If you can get your steam-tray pans into the oven you could do this, but I found this product works just fine at room temp. It foams up as you spray it so just spray it on the problem areas until they are covered with foam. The stuff will drip as it works so make sure you're prepared to catch this so it doesn't end up on that nice wood dining room set. Oh right-- nobody does this type of thing on their dining room furniture, right?

NOTE: If you have a Marshalls/TJ Maxx/HomeGoods near you check it out to find this product . Right now many of those stores carry this product-- $3.99 as of 03/04/2021.

The crud usually is liquefied after 30 minutes of sitting. You don't need to scrub much. If anything is stubborn and still there give it another spray, let it sit, and you should be good to go at that point. After finishing with the grill/oven cleaner just wash the pan with dish soap and rinse.

This works well on stainless steel pans. I don't believe you should use it on aluminum pans however. If you don't wear gloves this stuff will really sting if you have any cuts on your hands, but it won't burn your skin off like other products.

--Peter

[jrgagne99]

There was also quite a bit of evaporation occurring in the the 30 gallon pot.


Your should try dropping an aerator into your 200F warming pot. You'll have a poor-man's steam-away and get lots more "free" evaporation.

[Openwater]

Don't know what a "steam-way" is; and I've only used aerators when fermenting mash for beer. I guess I'll have to do some research on these upgrades. I'll attempt anything once if it's free.

[jrgagne99]

Search Red Roof Maples Bubble Master on this site.

[Openwater]

Ok, I saw some pix of bubblers and see how they operate. I just don't understand how/why blowing bubbles into hot sap creates more/faster evaporation.

[Ocelotsden]

Ok, I saw some pix of bubblers and see how they operate. I just don't understand how/why blowing bubbles into hot sap creates more/faster evaporation.

Heat transfer probably. When liquid boils it creates bubbles turning liquid into gas, so I guess adding more bubbles creates more gas, heat transfet and evaporation.
https://blogs.nasa.gov/ISS_Science_Blog/2011/04/15/post_1301433765536/

[Openwater]

Another question for the steam-panners: Regarding normal, full-size steam pans, does anyone know what the actual volume of liquid is in the pan when it's 1" deep? 2" deep? 3" deep? I know what the pan sizes are according to the top measurements, which is way different from the measurements at the bottom of the pan. I'm just trying to compare volumes of 1" of liquid in my rectangular pans to 1" of liquid in my round brewing pots.

[aamyotte]

Another question for the steam-panners: Regarding normal, full-size steam pans, does anyone know what the actual volume of liquid is in the pan when it's 1" deep? 2" deep? 3" deep? I know what the pan sizes are according to the top measurements, which is way different from the measurements at the bottom of the pan. I'm just trying to compare volumes of 1" of liquid in my rectangular pans to 1" of liquid in my round brewing pots.

That is a little difficult since the sides are not fully straight due to the non-jamming design and the radius of the corners. I would suggest to fill it with water from measuring cups keeping tabs on how many it takes to get up to each of the depths that you are looking for.

[Swingpure]

If you don't get all of the soap off the pan (and you won't) it will end up concentrated in your syrup giving it an off flavor.

Well that ship has sailed. Not knowing you were not supposed to use soap in a steam pan, I already used dish soap to clean them. I am not sure if the boil test I did yesterday would have cleaned any of the soap away. I guess I have a bunch of rinsing and wiping to do.

[DRoseum]

The best thing to use to clean your pans is distilled white vinegar. You can dilute with water (or not) and heat it up and let it soak. That will remove all kinds of nitre build up, minor scorching etc. Then triple rinse afterwards.

[Swingpure]

The best thing to use to clean your pans is distilled white vinegar. You can dilute with water (or not) and heat it up and let it soak. That will remove all kinds of nitre build up, minor scorching etc. Then triple rinse afterwards.

Would I need to use the vinegar to remove the hidden soap residue, or if I power wash them, that would suffice, I quadruple rinsed them after using the dish soap.

Strange the soap sticks so hard to the pans, as we all wash our stainless steel cooking pots in the kitchen with soap and water and don’t notice it in our food.

Because of this I will triple power wash my collection barrels again, just to make sure there is no soap residue in them, although I really rinsed them well before. I have two new barrels I will get on October 30th and will be able to wash them well on November 1st.

[Swingpure]

The double sized steam pans seem to be pretty terrific if you can get them. If I did not have my steam pans, I would consider getting them. Having said that, if I find that my boiling time is my bottle neck this coming season, I think my next major investment would be for a 2x4 pan with a runoff valve and thermometer. That will be around $500 Cdn.

[Swingpure]

The double sized steam pans seem to be pretty terrific. If I did not have my steam pans, I would consider getting them. Having said that, if I find that my boiling time is my bottle neck this coming season, I think my next major investment would be for a 2x4 pan with a runoff valve and thermometer. That will be around $500 Cdn. I did try to Google the double pans, 8” deep, but could not find them.

[DRoseum]

All double size steam pans deeper than 4 inches have been discontinued by the manufacturers. There is some availability in Europe, UK and Italy, but shipping makes it not worth it.

You are right that a 2x4 divided or hybrid pan would be best best move (other than a small DIY RO) if you want to maximize your taps and time.

[Wannabe]

Strange the soap sticks so hard to the pans, as we all wash our stainless steel cooking pots in the kitchen with soap and water and don’t notice it in our food.



You will be fine with the triple rinse. There is a small soap paranoia on this forum.