Which is best sap ladder install, more or less?

[doocat]

Didn't know quite how to title the thread. I currently have four 6 foot sap ladders in a row lifting a section of woods. I have an idea to increase tubing size from 3/4" to 1" and go from four to two 12' ladders. Is there a formula for efficiency or does anyone have experience doing this. These ladders have been in place at least 10 years but looking for efficiency upgrades.

Thanks in advance for the input.

[maple flats]

If you are saying you will use 1" vertical pipes to climb I think it will not work as well as 1/2 or 3/4" risers. However I have never tried using 1". It just seems you will have too much slipping back down and not efficiently climbing the ladders.

[doocat]

Well i guess i worded it wrong. there are currently four separate sets of stars that are 6 feet tall. I just want to go to 2 ladders (stars) at 12 feet tall. I was thinking less vacuum drop due to less ladders. And using 1" main in between instead of 3/4".

[maple flats]

12' ladders are not a problem, except to get up to make one. Over the years I've only made 3 sap ladders using star fittings, but they should do well. My highest star type ladder is only about 10', another is about 4 feet and the third about 6'. All 3 seem to work equally. The rest of my sap ladders are all using 2- 3/4" risers and they are anywhere from 8-10' high.

[PARKER MAPLE]

Do you find the 3/4" risers out preform a star type ladder? Also on a 3/4" pipe ladder do you have to create a leak in order for the sap to rise?

[maple flats]

I do find they work better and I do need to create a micro leak about 30-40' before the ladder. I have just 3 such leaks and when I close all 3 the vacuum does not go up, I get 27" vacuum either way using a BB4 on 225 taps. This year to be about 275-300 taps.

[maple flats]

Correction, I just thought more about it, those leaks are all on the stars type ladders, The ones I have at my lease are where the ones with 3/4" risers are. I think I had 2 micro leaks in the lease 2 years ago. I will be adding some more micro leaks there this year, but only on ones that appear to need help. Will figure that out later this month. The ones around my sugarhouse were all there before I made my first ladder with 3/4" risers. I'm also thinking I may try a new ladder or 2 using 1/2" risers. I read that they may even prove the better yet, but have not made any yet. I have one section on one (1") main that has only 1' drop in 270 feet and I have a hard time preventing sags there. After that 250' the slope increases to about 1% and then joins a wet/dry conductor headed to the tank. Without a ladder there is no way to raise the high end to give enough slope in the 250' streatch, it needs a ladder or 2.
I like the ladders with 3/4" risers better than using stars on ones needing more that 4 risers of 5/16 because they work well and are easier, faster and less costly to install.

[PCFarms]

We have 600 taps on a sap ladder that rises 40 feet. We had 2x20 to start, but that was not working well, so we changed to 4x10, with great success.
We use 4x 1/2" rises on the ladders. breezyHill has a lot of experience with ladders, and he has done lots of trial and error and has found 1/2" to be the best size (better than spiders and 3/4" risers)

Tony

[foursapsyrup1]

We have 600 taps on a sap ladder that rises 40 feet. We had 2x20 to start, but that was not working well, so we changed to 4x10, with great success.
We use 4x 1/2" rises on the ladders. breezyHill has a lot of experience with ladders, and he has done lots of trial and error and has found 1/2" to be the best size (better than spiders and 3/4" risers)

TonyCould you post a picture of the 1/2 inch riser? New to me.

[justamere tree farm]

We have 600 taps on a sap ladder that rises 40 feet. We had 2x20 to start, but that was not working well, so we changed to 4x10, with great success.
We use 4x 1/2" rises on the ladders. breezyHill has a lot of experience with ladders, and he has done lots of trial and error and has found 1/2" to be the best size (better than spiders and 3/4" risers)

Tony

Hi Tony

Do you have any pictures of this? Do you have a stats sheet on the ladders you use? I am looking at installing a 25' ladder here on my sugarbush and would like specs for the most efficient way of doing this. Any suggestions you have would be appreciated.

Thank you!

[Potters3]

We have done a few spider risers here. Always a pain in the backside. First to freeze last to thaw. Once thawed the do work good. We have one that crosses the driveway so it is lifting 12' no problem. If anyone could post picks of a mainline lift that would be great. We have a section out back 250 to 300 taps that is going to need to be lifted and thinking of doing it with a mainline lift instead of 5/16"

[maple flats]

I don't have any pictures, but maybe I can describe how I made my 3/4" risers. My next ones if needed will likely be 1/2" risers. On a main leading to where I need to lift the sap, I first install a T, lets say 1" on the side and 3/4" out both ends. Then I put a 3/4" elbow, pointing up. On those, each get the necessary riser and both are cut the same length., one of then gets a ball valve (will explain later). At the top I have the opposite but where the T goes, the 1" side faces downward a little so the sap passes thru the elbows, into the T and then slopes downward into the higher mainline. Then when the vacuum is on, on a good sap flow day, I watch the action going up the ladder. I try a few things if necessary. 1. I adjust the ball valve to find the setting that gives the best action. Once I find that I check that line for leaks upstream on the whole line being lifted and I fix any I find. Then if the vacuum gauge I have at the end of that main is good I'm done, if it reads more than 1 or 2" lower than the others I again watch the action in that ladder. Then if it has sap pooling more than just a foot or 2 back on the mainline, I go to a point about 35-40' upstream of the ladder. 2. There I add a saddle and a needle valve, with the saddle in the bottom of the mainline and the needle valve is on a length of 3/16 tubing and supported at waist high to chest level tied to a tree. Then I open the needle valve very slightly until I find the setting that gives the best lift action in the ladder. I don't think I've ever needed more than maybe 1/8 to 1/4 turn past where my leak detector can first hear the leak.
If your system is not leak free you will never need to add a needle valve.
Again, all of my sap ladders of this type (except 1 main 3/4" that is next to my tank) On that one I just have an elbow upward, a 3' riser and another elbow then down about a 3-4" drop along a 3' long slope to the mainline. That short one has always had good action and I get no more than a 12" to 24" back up before the riser, usually less than 6". So far I have 3 ladders like I described at the top of this post, but only 1 needed the needle valve.

[Wanabe1972]

I think to go up 25 feet you would want to use 2 or 3 shorter ladders in series. I use 2 to pick up 100 taps a total of 21 feet and they work pretty good. My problem is the placement of the ladder closet to the trees. The trees thaw before the ladder some days and gets flooded.