Permeate tank

[Wanabe1972]

Guys, Have a quick question about a new pearmeate tank. I have in the past had a small permeate tank inside the sugar house that is some what heated (40 degrees). This year i have a new verticle 500 gallon polytank that is going in the corner of an unheated wood shed. The shed is open on the 2 ends so i have no way to heat. I have a section of heat tape for the line running back to the RO and plan on having the valve inside the building where it wont freeze. The tank exit is about 4 to 5 inches above bottom of the tank and has an elbow turned to reach the bottom. My question is #1 has anyone ever put a barrel bung in the bottom of these type tanks to fully drain so they dont freeze? #2 Should i drop my sump pump in it at the end of the day and drain it completely? #3 Just leave it alone? Thanks Jeff

[Russell Lampron]

I have a similar set up with my permeate tanks in the woodshed. I try to plan my wash and rinse cycles so that I drain the tanks when it's going to freeze. The temperature can get below freezing for quite a while before the pipe will freeze. Most of the water will pump out of the tank with the elbow facing down and there won't be enough left in the tank to cause any problems.

[steam maker]

on the poly tanks that we can get in we sometimes take the inside elbow and spin it up then slide a rubber fernco coupling on it, then spin the elbow straight down in tank and adjust fernco so its 1/2 inch off bottom of tank then tighten the top clamp on fernco . doesnt leave much in tank then

[maple flats]

Back when I used a 550 vertical poly tank and with my current 1000 gal SS tank, they both lived outdoors with no heat. I keep permeat and once that is gone I haul in municipal water to use for cleaning. Then just before we have3 a forecast of below 30F temps I drain the tank. In season I never empty my tank, but I do close the tank valve and drain the hose going back to the sugarhouse. If the weather gets real cold at times I will need to melt ice at the tank drain. For that I first try to run a stiff wire in to poke a hole, it usually works but my second method is to use a propane torch. I point the flame up into the valve until I get a fast drip. It then melts to full flow shortly after. I reconnect the hose and go into the sugarhouse where I then turn on the tankless water heater and I make some hot water.
I purposely try to leave some permeate in my tank in season, because that is what I use to make hot water. If anything needs cleaning it becomes important. In season I have never gotten ice in the tank except at the drain. With a poly tank, heating it with a torch will not be an option.
On my haul trailer, in addition to 2 or 3 IBC totes for sap, I also carry some permeate in another for cleaning the roadside tank after emptying it. If the water in that tank freezes I add about 50 gal of additional water before I go to get sap and in that case I add hot water. If that has not melted the rest when I need it for washing, I just pump out of the top.

[Wanabe1972]

Thanks for the replies. I think after the responses I will leave it alone. After looking at it again it looks like the elbow has a notch out of it on one side to let the elbow get lower in the tank but is rotated up right now and will need to be turned. The tank is on the other side of the wall from my RO closet and the plumbing will be 1 inch pvc with the valve inside the closet. I already purchased 8 foot heat tape so I will add this for insurance. Maple Flats I left one 55 gallon drum inside that I'm going to collect permeate and water off the hood channel for running my water heater and hopefully to use to pressure wash my pans every few boils.

[PerryFamily]

I used a 1550 poly tank for raw sap for several years. I plugged the original outlet and put a bulkhead fitting in the floor of the tank. The tank floors are prettt flexible and with some pine boards under it pitching it to the drain I could get all but maybe 5 gallons out of it. Good luck

[maple flats]

I have a flue pan washer but it uses cold permeate. It is by Lapierre. I can only heat 3.1 GPM and the flue pan washer uses about 60-70 gpm. If you catch condensate from the hood, it will come out quite hot but not fast enough to have a barrel full to wash the pans but it will be a little faster than with cold. Another option, get one of the band heaters to go around that barrel. I use one to heat cold syrup for pumping. Mine uses 1000 watts and in 3 hrs it heats a 26.5 gal barrel of maybe 20 F syrup to about 120-140F. With more time it can even boil water but I never set the t-stat for more than 120-140. When in a hurry, I can pump one well, medium fast at 80F, if warmer it just flows faster. To wash pans 100-120 would work wonders. They make them for steel and plastic barrels, but those for plastic heat much slower and can't get as hot.

[Wanabe1972]

Mapled Flats, I dont usually use hot water when cleaning my pans until the end of the season. When my scoop drags in the bottom of the pans i like to empty my syrup pan through my filter press and put in the draw off tank and i also filter the sweet in the sap pan into another tank. I just wash the pans and sometimes scrub the sides a little. Drain the pans again and put the nice clean sweet and near up back into the pans.This whole process is because it seems now that i run and RO i have niter in both pans. I added hoods last year and it made this practice a pain in the A$$. I made a stainless tube the runs just under the condensate pan in the hoods from front to rear with 3 pressure washer nozzles so hopefully this will save me some work. I also hooked my hoods to a winch and can raise it off the pans by myself incase the pressure washer doesnt work. I would love to run hot water but i just havent got there yet maybe that will be next years project.


jeff