surge alamo

[KReinisch]

Good morning...

I have finally made my decision and I went with an old surge alamo pump for my remote woods. Im not sure about the model. I think its a 40+ maybe even bigger. It had a 4.5 hp motor on it which I am swapping out for a 6.5 hp gas engine. It has a reclaimer with a double oilier going to each side of pump. It also has another tank on the side that I presume is the muffler. This is my first go around so Im not exactly sure what I am looking at. I have tried researching past post and looking up info but some of its hard to follow.

I just have a few questions.. What size pulley should I go with on the gas engine? The vacuum hooks to the top of the reclaimer, Correct? There is 3 ports and what looks like a bottom drain on the other tank (muffler) What do I do with those?

any inf would be greatly appreciated..

[n8hutch]

That Gasoline engine may be undersized if the 4.5hp electric motor was sized correctly. I think you would want to be closer to 9hp at a minimum. But you might be ok with oversized pulleys. Are you going to run a 2 belt setup?

[KReinisch]

I was thinking that a two belt system would be best.

[maple flats]

As said, if the 4.5 electric was right you need at least a 9 HP to run it. I ran a bigger Alamo on a 6.5 Honda but could only get 17" vacuum because even with the weight of the engine on it the 2 belts slipped and then burned the belts anytime it started to climb over 17". That had a 2.75" double pulley on the engine. When I had a 3" drive pulley it lugged the engine down. I suggest 9 HP or more and at least a 3.5" drive double pulley or regulate it down to 17" max with a 2.75".

[PARKER MAPLE]

I think it also depends on if it has the stock pulley on the pump still. Correct me if I'm wrong but it should have a 9"?? Or was it 8" I can't remember

[maple flats]

Mine is 10" on the pump on both my Alamo 30 and on my Alamo 75-100. Some members on here can tell you how many CFM you will get at specific RPM's. My engines do not run wide open but at about 3/4 throttle. Then I remove the stock gas tank and make a stand beside the pump where I mount a 4.5 gal tank for the 30 and 2 tank that size tied together for the 75-100.

[KReinisch]

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This is the pump. Just looking for more info on it. Just trying to figure out where everything goes.

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

top part of your tank is oil reclaimer. bottom part is resivore with sight glass and temp gauge. pic 3 white pvc fitting the is cut off is vacuum to your woods or releaser. the tank in pic3 sometimes has a rubber ball in it that works as a moisture trap. I have a alamo 30/40 and yours looks twice as big as mine. (edit) I dont think a 6hp gas engine is big enough either

[maple flats]

That looks the same size as my larger one, to get more than 17" you need a bigger engine and at least a 3" or 3.5" engine double pulley. Then put on a remote gas tank. I will be using 2@4.5 gal each. When I had a Alamo 30 on that woods I got 19". regulated because I was on a vacuum tank.
The pump you show is called a 50-75-100, it all depends on the RPM, same pump.

[KReinisch]

Would an 8hp work?

[n8hutch]

Is it out of the question to run the electric motor and use a generator? I'm not sure what kind of amps that 4.5 hp electric motor runs at but it might be worth a try. I personally think that a 9hp would be a stretch, I think 11hp would be ideal.

[KReinisch]

I thought about the generator but that would be a pretty big generator to run that 4.5 hp motor. I think I am just going to go with the 13hp predator at harbor freight.

[S.S.S]

Get a 3hp 3phase motor and use vfd with generator. I tried a engine with our surge Alamo 100 and it didn't work worth a darn.

[maple flats]

I'll be able to let you know in 2-3 weeks if a 9 will do it. That is what I have that is going on the same pump you have. I will see what vacuum I can get with that. When I had a 6.5 on it, I could only get 17". I will be trying a 3" and a 3.5" double pulley to test it. I'm hoping for 23-24" with that. I plan to get a "real Maple pump" for next year. When the 6.5 got 17" it only had a 2.75" double. I tried a 3 but it lugged the engine, the 2.75" did not, but 17" was max because the double belts started to slip when I went higher.

[Ontario Ian]

I had gas engines, got away from them because of the problems. I run generators now with electric motors, 10 000 watt is lots for a 5hp motor. gas motor has a lot of vibration, you will have to beef up reclaimer so it doesnt crack

[maple flats]

I had gas engines, got away from them because of the problems. I run generators now with electric motors, 10 000 watt is lots for a 5hp motor. gas motor has a lot of vibration, you will have to beef up reclaimer so it doesnt crack
Besides needing to refuel 2x a day, what other issues did you have. I ran this pump on a 6.5 Honda for 4 seasons with no issues and the Alamo 30 I'm replacing has run 9 seasons on a 6.5 Honda too. At those 2 locations I only had 1 issue. The reclaimer on the bigger one, rather than just having a flapper on it, it came with a 1.5" nipple, then an elbow then a 12" nipple, all in galvanized. That was too much weight and in a third season the weight of all that finally broke the welds, I had to repair it and I then changed it to the proper flapper exhaust. I had no other issues. What were your issues?
If it makes a difference, on both units I made a pivot mount for the gas engines, the weight of the engine held the belt tight. In each case the engine has held about 1" off the platform with the belts in place on the side away from the pump. The 30 had one belt and the 75-100 has 2. That may have reduced vibration to the reclaimer.

[Ontario Ian]

I had engines bolted directly to frame, your set up maybe better for that. even with braces on mine they would still crack now and then. and they seemed to eat belts. They would stall now and then on a long run (overnight) When I got my RO I got a bigger diesel generator to run the shack, so having power on hand, I tried an electric motor and it worked very well.
so I changed 2nd bush for an electric motor also, run is with diesel welder (has 10000 watt generator). works well for me.

[maple flats]

On my Alamo 30 I used the same belt for 7 years before it needed replacing. On the Alamo 75-100 I changed to 2 new belts every second year. I only had one time when I had belt failure. That was when it got cold enough that some slush formed in the releaser. That held the dump flapper open a little and everything then froze. I then filled my moisture trap, which also froze and it pulled sap into the pump which then quit turning. The belts burned thru then. That was a mess which took about 6 hrs to fix . Took the releaser covers off and cleaned them out, removed the pump and took it home to thaw by the woodstove and took the moisture trap home and put it in the bathtub with hot water in it. I then drained the tub and refilled with hot water I think 3 more times before all of the ice cam out of my 4" PVC homemade moisture trap. That was the only time I burned the belts on the bigger pump after deciding it had to run at only 17". I burned a set or 2 before that trying 18 and at first 20" with just the 6.5 HP Honda and a 2.75" double drive pulley. At 3" drive pulleys the engine lugged and did not have enough power.

[KReinisch]

Besides needing to refuel 2x a day, what other issues did you have. I ran this pump on a 6.5 Honda for 4 seasons with no issues and the Alamo 30 I'm replacing has run 9 seasons on a 6.5 Honda too. At those 2 locations I only had 1 issue. The reclaimer on the bigger one, rather than just having a flapper on it, it came with a 1.5" nipple, then an elbow then a 12" nipple, all in galvanized. That was too much weight and in a third season the weight of all that finally broke the welds, I had to repair it and I then changed it to the proper flapper exhaust. I had no other issues. What were your issues?
If it makes a difference, on both units I made a pivot mount for the gas engines, the weight of the engine held the belt tight. In each case the engine has held about 1" off the platform with the belts in place on the side away from the pump. The 30 had one belt and the 75-100 has 2. That may have reduced vibration to the reclaimer.

So you ran the bigger alamo on a 6.5 hp? What did you do for the mount again?

[maple flats]

On the one for the 30, I used an old hinge I found, it is badly warn now. On the one for the 75-100 I welded 3 black nipples 1/2" x 2 each, spaced about 2 1/16 apart to the base and welded 2 of the same to fit in those spaces to the bottom of a 12 x 12 x 1/4 steel plate . I then ran a 7/16 x 12 bolt thru the arrangement with a hole drilled near the end for a hair pin cotter. The ones welded to the base were on a shim bolted in place to give enough height for the bolt to clear the round side pipes on the frame. My brother then milled some mounting slots and made a threaded adjuster for tension. On both the belts were supporting the engine from touching the back of the plate to the base plate under it (in other words the belt or belts held the weight up)
You need to understand, the 6.5 was not powerfull enough. I had to use a double 2.75" drive pulley on the engine with a 10" driven on the pump. With that and a spray of belt dressing every day it could only hold 17" vacuum, Everything I did to even get 18" failed, but I did not try a triple pulley, that may have attained the friction needed but then the engine did not have enough power. I tried just putting some extra weight on with a 3" but it then lugged the engine.

[KReinisch]

Could you go direct drive with it and avoid the belts all together?

[PARKER MAPLE]

I think a gas engines rotation spins opposit but can't remember. So direct drive would be a challenge

[BAP]

Direct drive would turn the pump too fast. You need the belts and 2 different size pulleys to get the correct pump speed.

[Ontario Ian]

surge did make a 100 direct drive, it had special motor on it that turned at 1100 rpm (I think that was the speed)

[mkoehler79]

1100 rpm is correct. 5.5 HP motor.

[Paul VT]

I have a Alamo 40 that has a electric motor on it now. I’m planning to use it with a gas engine as I will have no power where we will be using it. Does the pump need to be kept warm or will it be ok outside? It will be undercover of course.
Thanks in advanced.

[maple flats]

Both of mine are outside. My BB4 piston pump (before Babson Bros became Surge) is in the open, no cover. My Surge 75-100 is under a tarp canopy. I took an old vendor tent and just used a part of the frame to then cover it with a small tarp. Both work fine. In all of the years I've used the Surge 75-100 it never had a cover until this past season. The cover is just 5' long and about 8' wide (it started as a 6 leg 10x10, I just use 5' of the length, and I cut down the length of the 4 rafters which made it narrower).

[Paul VT]

Thank you!