Sterilizing taps

[goldnut]

After reading some past post I realize that buying used plastic taps was a mistake. I was wondering if stainless taps can be effectively sterilized? I have about 100 of them. What is the best way to sterilize? Thanks in advance for the advice. Ken

[raptorfan85]

When I used stainless spouts I would boil them for about 20 minutes and then put them in the oven at 300 for another 20. Seemed to work better then doing nothing at all, but they never seemed to run as good as brand new spouts would.

[buckeye gold]

With plastic spiles costing from 25 cents to 60 cents each why even bother with anything used. Spiles and line fittings are probably the cheapest single items you purchase and proportionally insignificant when considered against the total cost of sugaring. Yet they can have a very significant impact. Just bite the bullet and buy new taps.

[goldnut]

Hi Buckeye!

I do realize my error and have purchased new taps. Being a rookie at this I bought some used taps a few months ago before I realized, after researching this site, how used taps effected yield. The used plastic taps will NOT be used. With that said I do have SS taps that I was asking about. Does mold leave a footprint in SS like it does in plastic?

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Used taps have microbes on them you won't necessarily be able to see whether stainless or plastic. Stainless taps may be able to sanitized and cleaned but to do it right will require more than just a soaking and rinse. Agitation while soaking in peroxide or another cleaner is the best you can do. You'll never "renew" a used tap to brand new condition but you could get good results if cleaned properly. Sounds like you may be a producer with a few hundred taps? If it were me, I would try and thoroughly clean the stainless taps and use them for 1 season. If they are stained badly or there is noticeable grime after cleaning toss them. The next year, cut your losses and get all new taps. As buckeye suggested, new taps are worth the money. We are looking into the CDL zapbac spouts spouts which may be a good solution to someone looking to get 2-3 years out of a tap. Not enough proof to know if they work yet in my opinion but I think we will try them this year on our +/- 375 taps and see how they do over the next 2-3 seasons.

[buckeye gold]

I'm wondering if soaking in phosphoric acid would clean up the left over organics. Then boil and rinse and you might be close to new on the SS spiles.

[Z/MAN]

I have mostly tubing but also a half dozen or so pails with stainless spouts for the kids to empty and just for looks. After boiling the spouts would it help to put them in the small ultrasonic cleaner that I recently acquired?

[maple flats]

It would likely help on the SS spouts. A few years back, one seller of SS spouts said they would clean their spouts for free, using ultra sonic. In a year or 2 they were gone.

[phil-t]

I just read this somewhere. True??? Dr. Tim? Relative to taps -
The sap flow stops because of bacteria, and each crop of bacteria becomes inert in more than 12 months but less than 24 months, we found.

I'm a newbie to syrup production, and after reading this thread, and other information, I am buying new taps this year.

[maple flats]

I even question that bacteria become inert in 24 mos. If a lowly mosquito egg can survive 1000 year of drought, then hatch after a rain, how can we assume or prove all bacteria is inert after just 24 mos.?

[phil-t]

That was my thinking. Never heard anything like that before, or any data about it, for that matter.

[MapleMark753]

When I was using metal taps, before the season I'd boil them, let them cool, clean the inside of them with pipe cleaners, reboil them, and then use. Seemed to get most all of any "stuff" inside the taps. Worked ok.
We use the clear CDL replace every year taps now. Seems to work better.
take care, Mark

[Zucker Lager]

One way to "kill" most any critter that would be hiding anywhere inside a SS tap would be to autoclave it.....don't know if a pressure caner would work as good???? but 15 psi for an hour in a pressure cooker / caner might get most of them. It might be an easy method of disinfecting ???. Jay

[DrTimPerkins]

The sap flow stops because of bacteria, and each crop of bacteria becomes inert in more than 12 months but less than 24 months, we found.

The quantity, and probably the types of microbes that inhabit tapholes is what results in sap flow slowing and eventually stopping. This process is commonly known as "taphole drying", although it is actually taphole plugging and the tree walling off process that results in sap flow stoppage.

There is some evidence that extensive drying of spouts/tubing will result in the death of a good portion of the vegetative component of microbes. This is because a certain amount of water is necessary for growth and maintenance of microbe populations. Without water, microbes will die. It doesn't take much moisture to sustain them though -- even high humidity is enough to sustain populations, so microbes will do fine in closed tubing systems throughout the summer/fall/winter.

If tubing/spouts are allowed to dry out, the reduction in moisture levels probably results in somewhat slower growth of microbes, and some amount of die-off. The amount depends upon the moisture level and the length of time it is dry. Some sugarmakers have adopted the practice of cutting off spouts and letting them dangle to "dry" over the summer (as opposed to plugging spouts or the tubing on a tee), the thinking being that the microbes will die. Some undoubtedly will -- but not all.

The realization that EXTENSIVE drying results in death of microbes came when some researchers tried to replicate the sanitation work of PMRC and Cornell looking at new spouts, CV spouts, new drops as a way to increase sanitation and thus increase yields. Their initial results were very different in that they found NO differences between new and used systems. In trying to understand this result, we asked a lot of questions about where they got their "used" tubing for the research, and then we did some experiments at PMRC looking at "old" tubing. We found that "old" tubing that had remained in use in closed tubing systems (like we had used in our studies) had very high levels of microbes, but that "old" tubing that had been removed from use and allowed to dry (in the case of the other researchers the tubing had been taken out of the woods and put in a dry storage location for 3 seasons) had very low microbe levels. When they repeated their study with freshly used "old" tubing, the results were very similar to the PMRC and Cornell work.

However....drying of tubing systems will NOT kill spores that are formed. So depending upon the microbes and how they developed, if spores are formed, they are there just waiting for the right conditions to occur before growing again. Once it starts to warm up a bit and the sap starts flowing (food supply), the spores will germinate and the microbe party begins again.

So yes...drying is better than a humid environment, but it clearly is not as good as new. How long does the tubing/spouts have to dry....probably at least 1-2 yrs, but it depends upon the actual storage conditions (humidity, temperature, length of time).

Going back to the original post...yes, you can clean (probably not to the point of sterilization) stainless spouts. Takes a good bit of effort to get them as clean as a new plastic spout, but it is easier to do with stainless than with plastic (which is porous). Brushing out with a mild Clorox solution, then baking, then drying will do pretty well. DO NOT SOAK them in Clorox for any length of time though...unless you want a rusted mass of spouts. Probably won't be quite as good as a new plastic spout, but will get you reasonably close. So why don't more people do it? Because time is money. Many people would prefer to just spend the $0.15-0.50 on a new spout and use their time for other things...like adding more taps or fixing their lines or pumps.

[phil-t]

Thank you Dr. Tim. New taps it is.

[billschi]

Interesting thread. I searched this out for proper procedure of sterilizing my SS taps. I was quite surprised that just boiling them wasn't good enough. Dr Tim's response confused me a bit only because when I was a nurse back in 1990, I remember SS utensils being autoclaved for sterilization. So I just looked it up to refresh my memory. Basically it is for the same reasons Dr Tim explained. It was/is being used to kill bacteria and spores that boiling or chemicals fail to kill. Without in depth net surfing, it appears autoclaving is similar to a pressure cooker. What I don't know is, if the temps and pressures are different? I also never autoclaved anything so maybe it has a drying cycle too?
What are your thoughts?

[Chickenman]

Maintenance mechanic here, and I worked at our local hospital. Bio-med took care of our autoclave for the most part but I did have to work on it too. Simplest terms.....yes its a big pressure cooker. Ours if memory is correct was about 80 pounds of steam and it went through several cycles of heating up, hold, cool a a bit, recycle. I would think that cleaning them in a canning pressure cooker at 15# for 80 minutes like corn would most likely do it. If you had enough of them to justify the time.

[Super Sapper]

I looked up what is need to sterilize and it takes between 250 and 270 degrees F over a period of time. That is between 15 and 27 lbs of steam. I did not look at how long at these temperatures though.

[Maple River Sugar]

So is there a Instant Pot recipe for SS taps? I may be able to talk my wife into this part :lol:

[billschi]

Was there a drying cycle with the autoclaves? Or do you think air drying after is sufficient?

[Chickenman]

In the autoclave when the pressure was vented it would dump the condensate to a drain. As the unit cooled it created a bit of vacuum and every was dry and Hot. This has been simplified to the easiest way to understand it. But a true autoclave is complex in systems but simple to operate. (several of our OR nurses and our general stores lady would run it) I don't see why a pressure cooker at 15 to 20# for 80 to 120 minutes could not accomplish a similar result.

[Eberzin]

Dr. Perkins,
You said do not soak stainless spouts in Clorox because of rust. I thought stainless does not rust. I have sapmeister spouts and the old style bucket spouts with hooks in stainless which are fairly new. Will Clorox do this?
Thanks

[DrTimPerkins]

Dr. Perkins,
You said do not soak stainless spouts in Clorox because of rust. I thought stainless does not rust. I have sapmeister spouts and the old style bucket spouts with hooks in stainless which are fairly new. Will Clorox do this?
Thanks

I’m back...at least a little.

My comment was “DO NOT SOAK them in Clorox for any length of time...”

Stainless is stain LESS, not stain proof. Strong oxidizes like chlorine will rust (oxidize) any metal at an accelearated rate. Soaking for 10-15 is sufficient for sanitizing. Soaking for many days or weeks will not help further in sanitizing, but will start the rusting process.

[Arctic Fox]

So is there a Instant Pot recipe for SS taps? I may be able to talk my wife into this part :lol:

When you come up with the recipe let me know. :-)

[billynoah]

I used a pressure canner to sterilize my stainless steel spiles and drops this year. 30 minutes at 15 PSI. I had some of the blue tubing from a local store as well as some 100% silicone food grade stuff I found online (which was a bit pricey). The silicone and spiles survived. The blue tubing unfortunately was reduced to a blue blob. I'm quite happy overall ... just wanted to issue a warning to anyone interested in trying this.

[aunt stellas gardens]

So 12 years of making syrup and still learning.
I'm using the original ss taps I received Christmas 2008. They still look new, even though I've not cleaned them as described in this thread. Hot water, very hot and some soaking in Dawn and swirl the bucket, hot water rinse, towel dry.
I wonder how much sap loss I'm experiencing? I'm averaging half gallon syrup after boiling 20 gallons sap. This is my last week this year. 2 gallons syrup made so far
I guess I know what to put on the Christmas list this year!
This forum has been one of the most educational uses for newbies and not so newbies. And I made cream for the first time because of this forum, and now the grandkids want maple cream toast for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Thanks to all of you for answering all our questions.

[DrTimPerkins]

The blue tubing unfortunately was reduced to a blue blob.

You basically recreated the tubing extrusion process...but extruded the plastic into a blob.

Here's how maple tubing is made. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocNQn3Qr6kY