mainline length vs. shurflo

[Windy Acres]

so we have a couple nice hedge rows across the road, half of them are currently on 3/16, id like to put them on a shurflo, but if i use a mainline to connect the 2 lines, i will have about 1200 feet of mainline, im thinking id be better off just stringing 3/16 the whole way? or will the shurflo work on that much mainline?

[bmbmkr]

I attended a seminar this past weekend, and the presenter was an engineer who took up sugaring. He did the math on resistance and flow, and an experiment he set up some tubing on a slope with different length runs after the last tap. I don't have the numbers, but 3/16 will definitely slow down on longer runs. I had a 5.5gpm everflow 12v pump pulling 250 taps mostly 3/16, all were at least 25' drop after the last tap, some 150'. My mainline is 1400' 3/4 on 2%.grade I averaged 1.9gpt last year. In the seminar, they showed where over time, if you limit the length of 3/16, you can increase your sap yield by as much as 30%. As soon as the presenter emails his spreadsheet, I will be happy to forward it. Spent yesterday in the sugarwoods running anither 500' mainline that I had originally intended to just use tubing on. It will pay for itself this year on-the 85 extra taps. I have a 3/16 lateral that I am going to change the last 300' to 5/16 (between the 35' of drop mark and the mainline) in an effort to increase the yield of those 30 trees.

[Windy Acres]

Thank you!

[L&msugarbush]

I did 3/16 gravity last year and I'm wondering if anybody has done gravity 3/4 or 1" main line from the end of their 3/16 lateral runs into the end of a main line which would run from there to the Maple Shack? I only have a 2% grade on the mainline and would have to run it 750 feet up to a ridge where the 3/16 ends. Has anybody done this with so little grade?

[DrTimPerkins]

I attended a seminar this past weekend, and the presenter was an engineer who took up sugaring.

The presenter also did not recommend using 5/16" tubing as "mainline" to connect several 3/16" lines into, or y-ing several 3/16" lines together, which research also indicates gives less than optimal results. It usually ends up with one of the 3/16" lines running well and the other(s) running poorly. Better to either continue all the way to the tank with (multiple lines of) 3/16" tubing or use mainline pipe (0.5" or 0.75" water pipe) on the lower section after you've gained sufficient drop to generate good vacuum.

[DrTimPerkins]

I did 3/16 gravity last year and I'm wondering if anybody has done gravity 3/4 or 1" main line from the end of their 3/16 lateral runs into the end of a main line which would run from there to the Maple Shack? I only have a 2% grade on the mainline and would have to run it 750 feet up to a ridge where the 3/16 ends. Has anybody done this with so little grade?

That would be the preferred approach. 2% grade is sufficient for sap flow in mainline, but suboptimal for 3/16" tubing. Use a sight level to maintain a good constant downhill grade, mainline wire stretched tight, and wire-tie the mainline to the support wire very well to eliminate sags. Use cedar posts if you can't find enough trees for the support wire and tie-backs.

[bmbmkr]

The presenter also did not recommend using 5/16" tubing as "mainline" to connect several 3/16" lines into, or y-ing several 3/16" lines together, which research also indicates gives less than optimal results. It usually ends up with one of the 3/16" lines running well and the other(s) running poorly. Better to either continue all the way to the tank with (multiple lines of) 3/16" tubing or use mainline pipe (0.5" or 0.75" water pipe) on the lower section after you've gained sufficient drop to generate good vacuum.

I should have added more detail in my comment about 3/16 vs 5/16 transition on longer runs. His experiment scenario had good drop after the taps, but had some length with less grade at the bottom of the hill. In my sugar woods, I have an 800' lateral, 30 taps in the first 150-200'. I have 75' elevation drop from the last tap to the mainline, but have a long level run that goes around a holler and a rock cliff. I could go straight down the hill, but my mainline is 35' in the air over the same holler. The last 150' of the lateral is only 4% grade,the sap really flows, but I'm thinking of transitioning that last 150' to 5/16 just so there is less resistance that according to the presenters experiment. I have enough trees that I can use nylon rope finger traps to really keep the 5/16 tight. As it is that lateral and it's twin coming from the other side of the holler hits the mainline 12' up, it's on a big poplar that is also a mainline anchor- have strainers on both sides and its on one of the few level spots that I can safely use a ladder. Appalachian Ohio!!

[mol1jb]

I attended a seminar this past weekend, and the presenter was an engineer who took up sugaring. He did the math on resistance and flow, and an experiment he set up some tubing on a slope with different length runs after the last tap. I don't have the numbers, but 3/16 will definitely slow down on longer runs. I had a 5.5gpm everflow 12v pump pulling 250 taps mostly 3/16, all were at least 25' drop after the last tap, some 150'. My mainline is 1400' 3/4 on 2%.grade I averaged 1.9gpt last year. In the seminar, they showed where over time, if you limit the length of 3/16, you can increase your sap yield by as much as 30%. As soon as the presenter emails his spreadsheet, I will be happy to forward it. Spent yesterday in the sugarwoods running anither 500' mainline that I had originally intended to just use tubing on. It will pay for itself this year on-the 85 extra taps. I have a 3/16 lateral that I am going to change the last 300' to 5/16 (between the 35' of drop mark and the mainline) in an effort to increase the yield of those 30 trees.

Very interesting. I would be interested in that spreadsheet as well

[bmbmkr]

Very interesting. I would be interested in that spreadsheet as well

I've been in contact with the presenter, and he is hesitant (for good reason) to put his spreadsheet out to the public as he is still experimenting, and he said it is full of engineering equations and formulas. Hopefully there will be more research on grade% compared to length and grade of the lateral- not only the vertical drop after the last tap for 3/16. As a small producer in the southern range of sugar maples, every little bit of efficiency helps. I want to mention once again what a great help Maple Trader, and Dr. Tim Perkins have been to our operation. Your information, and willingness to share is putting food on my table. Thank you!

[minehart gap]

" I have a 3/16 lateral that I am going to change the last 300' to 5/16 (between the 35' of drop mark and the mainline) in an effort to increase the yield of those 30 trees." bmbmkr, wouldn't that be counter productive? The purpose of 3/16 is to allow the sap flow to create it's own vacuum but you will be elimiating the natural element of that by increasing size of tubing. If you're laterals do not have leaks and you have 35' vertical drop, you should have maximum vacuum on that lateral and your pump with that much distance (resistance) most likely will not create anywhere that much vacuum.

At first I thought that you were going to use 3/16 from the main line to the 35' elevation location then change to 5/16. Then (in theory) you would have natural vacuum and less resistance. It would be interesting to see if the vacuum from the smaller tubing would be great enough to transfer vacuum to the larger tubing. When I get time, I will look at the math on this. Yes Haynes, more math.

[bmbmkr]

I just got 6 vacuum gauges in the mail yesterday for this main, the new main and the top of several laterals.

I think I'm gaining the full extent of the 3/16 natural vac with 35-75' elevation drop between my last taps and the mainline. A few of the laterals take a long, low grade to the main though and this is where I think the friction might slow it down a bit. Watching the flow through the laterals last year, several were running a lot faster than others, even with the 12v pump on.(Found out about squirrels too- zero chews the first year, about 25 last year). I don't want the effect of the natural vac to have to fight the friction of a long low grade run to the main. I'll more than likely put the gauges at the top of the lateral for the beginning of the season, keep tabs on it for a few days, switch over to 5/16 at the bottom of the run and check it again and see if there is any difference. I won't take that lower end of the 3/16 down until there is some solid data.19011