granulated sugar

[fred]

the last couple of weeks making sugar has been a challenge. high humidity and rainy days, im guessing, are causing the sugar to cake instead of granulate. we are working off of the same 1000 gallon tank of dark robust. worked perfect before now not so much. ive tried 250-260 degrees , everything in between. one batch is fine the next is gumballs. we try to watch the humidity and adjust temp but its so spiratic. we use a steam kettle , then a big hobart mixer. thinking about a cdl sugar machine. anyone have/use one? or other suggestions

[Sunday Rock Maple]

We use 265

[DaveB]

I was just going to post about this as well so good timing! I'll try the 265 number.

I also wanted to ask and see what folks use to deal with clumps of sugar. After I sift my sugar I find clumps of sugar "balls" that break apart when you squeeze them. I also have hard pieces that I throw back in the batch but I'm looking for a more efficient way of dealing with the soft pieces. Right now I "mash" those pieces but I'm wondering if there is a better way.

[DaveB]

the last couple of weeks making sugar has been a challenge. high humidity and rainy days, im guessing, are causing the sugar to cake instead of granulate. we are working off of the same 1000 gallon tank of dark robust. worked perfect before now not so much. ive tried 250-260 degrees , everything in between. one batch is fine the next is gumballs. we try to watch the humidity and adjust temp but its so spiratic. we use a steam kettle , then a big hobart mixer. thinking about a cdl sugar machine. anyone have/use one? or other suggestions

I have a CDL double machine but previously used a small mixer so I really can't speak about going from a Hobart to one. I really like it but there are some idiosyncrasies like cleaning that I working through. I love throwing in the syrup and having it do it's thing. Emptying can be slightly tricky but he drums just rotate and dump into a bin that I can then let cool. I find that I need to give it a good cleaning at the end of a day with multiple batches or after a couple of days of single batches but that goes without saying.

[fred]

after more research and conversations we come to realize ac and dehumidifying is a must. we did try 267 and still didnt work normally we go to 250 but we were seasonally making it. now demand has us doing it year round, so looks like changes are in order.N E Ohio is horrible for humidity. thanks guys

[Parker]

A dehumidifier in the room helps alot...or wait until there is a low humidity day.....i have used a food processor to grind the balls that do not sugar

[Amber Gold]

I put all the sugar into a blender to break it up to a consistent size. I burnt out a few of the standard mixers before I spent a few extra bucks and got the Ninja Chefs model...1500W baby. You really need the higher wattage to break the clumps up. I used to use a food processor, but the blender works better because it funnels everything into the blades...just what I found.

[Woody77]

This is my first time looking into sugar making. I am hoping to learn from your mistakes so I can try to avoid them myself. As for the clumps I would think a mill for grain or coffee would work great and there adjustable for grind size.

[SeanD]

I've had the same problems and used some of the same fixes. For me, sugar just hasn't become automatic or consistent like I can with candy or cream. One thing I do notice that hasn't come up yet, is my second batch is always wetter than my first.

I wonder, did the first batch raise the humidity in the room that much? Is it related to using the same cook pot with residual cooked syrup; or is it residual sugar in the mixing bowl?

I've cleaned everything between batches - which stinks. Sometimes, I put the wet batch on a sheet in the oven at 180 (I'll have to check my notes) for a few minutes to dry it out. It always works out, but it's never quite the same each time.

[Dennis H.]

I do small batches, no more than 1 gal at a time.

I almost always go to above 260, most often 265.

I stir by hand and try to get it down to a fine crumb with a few nuggets here and there. While I am boiling the syrup I will turn on the oven to 180 degrees.

So once I have the sugar broken down to this "course" stage I will pour it out onto a cookie sheet and place it in the oven. I will leave the oven on for maybe another 1/2 hour then I will turn it off and just let the sugar sit in there till the oven cools off. This will take a few hours.
Then I will come back and take this course sugar and put it thru a food mill to get a even "grind".


This is what I have found to work for me with the size of batches that I do, now if I was doing larger this could turn into a real pain.

[Moser's Maple]

The first key is to do a batch only large enough for your mixer ( hand, or electric) to be able to stir with out stalling or slowing.
I generally am not in the 260’s. My sugar temp normally begins in the 270’s and goes up from there.
A digital barometer is a very hand piece of equipment. Many times when I’m doing multiple batches and my dehumidifier isn’t able to maintain the same humidity my boiling point and finish temp will rise.
A mechanical sift is also a very good investment. Either an electric or hand held that can be used with a cordless drill. The key here is to sift after the granular cools a little.
Oh when stirring I make sure to stir until all steam has left the bowl while mixing.
I geerally do 2-3 gallon batches (mainly 3’s) but I have modified my Hobart that is has 3hp 3phase motor that’s gets converted to 1 phase with a vfd. For these larger batches you need the power to keep the stir going.

[S.S.S]

I used to use a kitchen aide mixer to make my sugar but recently out grow it. I'am currently using a hobart mixer and take my syrup to 260-265 degrees. The sugar comes out beautiful every time with very few lumps. I then take and spread it out on large baking sheets and let it dry out on a rack. I have a dehumidifier that i set at 30% and it kicks on and off as needed.

[Woody77]

How long does it take in the mixer to turn to sugar.

[wnybassman]

My 1/2 gallon batches take about 5 to 10 minutes.

[Woody77]

These temps are accurate?
Will a lower temp give a lighter color?
Just poured it in the mixer. fingers crossed.
I think it's working. It had better hurry up if my wife sees me using her kitchen aid she'll..... I wont be able to type any more lol.
Is there a good digital thermometer that's cheep i can get.
Ok definitely not 5-10 minutes. It's like peanut butter and pretty moist yet but real grainy. I heated it to 270 .

[Woody77]

I don't think it's working. Could I have mixed two slowly and it cooled down to much to dry out.
So what's my next step wet it down and re boil or put it in the oven and then food processor?
Boy I feel dumb lol.

[wnybassman]

I've only made it a handful of times, but I've never had it not work. I take to 264º. Hotter should turn it to something other than what you got. Hope you didn't let it harden in the pan lol

[Woody77]

No worries it's not hardening at all.

[wnybassman]

Definitely sounds like the thermometer is off a bit. When it starts to turn after 5 to 10 minutes of mixing, mine goes from thick liquid to a pasty peanut buttery substance to sugar in about 45 seconds with a big burst of steam.

[Woody77]

Well this is definitely like making candy. You win some you lose some. A cookie sheet and two trips to the oven finally got mine to sugar. Definitely needed a better thermometer.
Thanks for all the advice y'all.

[S.S.S]

Is the maple syrup your using from end of season or when?

[n8hutch]

It is possible that the Syrup you are using just won't make good sugar, its happened to me with some real Dark crude I was experimenting with to make sugar. Otherwise as other people have said 265 has worked every time. I used to make it but hand but after doing a 15lb order bye hand I said enough is enough and bought a heavy duty kitchen Aid mixer. At some point I'd like to get a commercial mixer because the kitchen Aid gets kinda grumpy on 3qt cream bathches.

[DaveB]

265°-270°F works for me too.

I know I've had batches with dark syrup that I've boiled to those temps but I wind up with this gummy mess that eventually hardens but it never comes out right.

Question for the group - I wind up with a lot of hard balls or "rocks" of sugar that I need to reprocess some how. It's probably about 40-50% of my batches. My question is, how much do you guys get? I'm trying to figure out if that is normal or if it's a result of the syrup I'm using or my mixer.

[Chickenman]

I've only made it 2 times each a 1/2 gallon batch. I only had maybe a cup of "crunchies" as I call them. Some were like rock candy, some just hard clumps of sugar that I could crush to grains. Been following this thread, as we really like the sugar and looking for others errors so I can avoid them. First time I tried I let it go to far, it overshot my temp really quick and burned. I was just glad I was cooking it outside. I think I still have the burned pan with the burnt sugar in it as a reminder to not walk away from anything maple.

[S.S.S]

265°-270°F works for me too.

I know I've had batches with dark syrup that I've boiled to those temps but I wind up with this gummy mess that eventually hardens but it never comes out right.

Question for the group - I wind up with a lot of hard balls or "rocks" of sugar that I need to reprocess some how. It's probably about 40-50% of my batches. My question is, how much do you guys get? I'm trying to figure out if that is normal or if it's a result of the syrup I'm using or my mixer.Sunday we made 32 pounds of sugar and got a solo cup hard pieces. If your getting that many hard pieces that means your not getting your syrup mixed up very well and the syrup just stays in a clump in spots instead of getting mixed up.

[Woody77]

Sunday we made 32 pounds of sugar and got a solo cup hard pieces. If your getting that many hard pieces that means your not getting your syrup mixed up very well and the syrup just stays in a clump in spots instead of getting mixed up.ok that being said. so I don't keep make mistakes. I've only made two batches in my life both were the same result. Not great.
I use a kitchen aid pro series 8 qt.
I went to 265° .
What speed should I go. first time I was on low second I was on 3. Same result. Not sure if its important.
It got to the graniey peanut butter stage again but mixed for a good10-15 minutes with no more change .
So on the cookie sheet it went and in the oven for 10 minutes at 200° back in the bowl then I had the nicest maple brown sugar you ever saw bit it wouldn't dry so 5 more minutes in the oven .then back in the bowl and tadaa sugar.
Do I need to go to 270°.
Lastly will that soft brown sugar keep without turning into a brick. Or needing refrigerated.

[Chickenman]

Sounds to me like your thermometer is out of calibration. Are you letting is cool slightly before mixing? I only ask because I was just reading the section on granulated sugar from the Maple Confections Notebook.

[Chickenman]

https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/blogs.cornell.edu/dist/7/5773/files/2016/06/Confection-Notebook5th-edition-tz3j4x.pdf

If you have not seen this, I hope the link works.

[Woody77]

https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/blogs.cornell.edu/dist/7/5773/files/2016/06/Confection-Notebook5th-edition-tz3j4x.pdf

If you have not seen this, I hope the link works.holly poop 231 pages. Thanks that is a tun of great info.
I did not cool the syrup first. I will next time though.
That's just like candy.
G mr. obvious I never made the connection.

[S.S.S]

ok that being said. so I don't keep make mistakes. I've only made two batches in my life both were the same result. Not great.
I use a kitchen aid pro series 8 qt.
I went to 265° .
What speed should I go. first time I was on low second I was on 3. Same result. Not sure if its important.
It got to the graniey peanut butter stage again but mixed for a good10-15 minutes with no more change .
So on the cookie sheet it went and in the oven for 10 minutes at 200° back in the bowl then I had the nicest maple brown sugar you ever saw bit it wouldn't dry so 5 more minutes in the oven .then back in the bowl and tadaa sugar.
Do I need to go to 270°.
Lastly will that soft brown sugar keep without turning into a brick. Or needing refrigerated.I always run the machine on lowest setting for speed. Another thing i will stop the mixer several times and use spatula to scrap down to bottom of bowl to make sure no syrup is left sitting and not getting mixed up. Have you ever tested the invert sugar level of your syrup? Once i used some very dark syrup and it never changed to granulated sugar in mixer, it was just a big glob of goo. I then tested the syrup and the invert sugar level was between a 6 and 7. Thats only time the syrup would never turn into granulated sugar. I take my syrup up to 260 degrees and once the temp is reached dump syrup in mixer. Once your done making sugar in mixer you can spread it out on cookie sheet and put in oven on low temp to take any remaining moisture out. Once its dry put it in air tight container and it will last a very long time.

[wnybassman]

ok that being said. so I don't keep make mistakes. I've only made two batches in my life both were the same result. Not great.
I use a kitchen aid pro series 8 qt.
I went to 265° .
What speed should I go. first time I was on low second I was on 3. Same result. Not sure if its important.
It got to the graniey peanut butter stage again but mixed for a good10-15 minutes with no more change .
So on the cookie sheet it went and in the oven for 10 minutes at 200° back in the bowl then I had the nicest maple brown sugar you ever saw bit it wouldn't dry so 5 more minutes in the oven .then back in the bowl and tadaa sugar.
Do I need to go to 270°.
Lastly will that soft brown sugar keep without turning into a brick. Or needing refrigerated.

I use the paddle on the lowest setting on the Kitchen Aid right up to the point of transitioning to sugar and bogging down, then swap it out quick for the dough kneader. Then I can let it go until it is where I want it without stressing the motor. I also use a very thin spatula to scrape down the sides while the paddle is running.

[DaveB]

Sunday we made 32 pounds of sugar and got a solo cup hard pieces. If your getting that many hard pieces that means your not getting your syrup mixed up very well and the syrup just stays in a clump in spots instead of getting mixed up.

I was guessing the mixing part is what was causing it. I need to look at how the paddles are setup and see if I can improve upon that. Thanks for the info!

[S.S.S]

I was guessing the mixing part is what was causing it. I need to look at how the paddles are setup and see if I can improve upon that. Thanks for the info!Hi,Dave what mixer are you using and what attachment? wisk or paddle?

[DaveB]

Hi,Dave what mixer are you using and what attachment? wisk or paddle?

I have a CDL maple sugar machine. It has paddles that spin horizontally. I suspect that it's what's causing the rocks to form because it's not fully mixing the sugar before it granulates. I'd like to sell the machine and switch to a couple cream machines that spin like a traditional mixer with paddles. I think the open form would work better.