Coffee urn

[BoerBoel]

I'm new to maple syrup but I was reading about using a coffee urn for bottle syrup. I was thinking about a stainless steel urn that would keep the syrup between 183°F to 188°F.

We are small and only tapping about 20 trees this year and wondering what everyone thinks about using a coffee urn (pros/cons) for small time hobbyists?

[Haynes Forest Products]

Great idea and they work well. I have a fellow producer that bottles everyday using a $15 rummage sale percolator style one. He does 400 gallons a year all thru the pot. Now a word of caution about the electric element. If you put cold syrup in the pot and crank up the heat to get it to boiling temp you will start to hear a small rumbling and slight squeak and I call it micro boiling and it can cause small amounts of niter. I would only filter warm syrup in to it and only work the temp up slowly.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

They work great for bottling. But Haynes is correct.....you should get syrup up to temperature another way. If we are boiling while bottling we will put the urn over the evaporator to heat it up. Your syrup can lose 10-20 degrees going into an urn at room temperature.

[psparr]

Here’s a video of my urn setup a few years ago. Hope it helps. https://youtu.be/9kdVThgyq_M

[BoerBoel]

Thanks for the video. I can see me doing something like this.

My thinking is that sap and RO concentrate especially doesn't keep. So if I boil down the concentrate to near syrup, can I finish the syrup in the next couple of days?

I would then finish several days of near syrup on a propane burner and then filter it when putting it into the coffee urn. I would heat up the urn with water prior to putting the finished syrup. I like the idea of steaming the filter while the water heats up the urn...seems like a waste to not make use of the steam. And if I can finish several days of partially finished sap then I would end up with a fair bit to put through the filter and into the coffee urn (40 cup model).

Does that sound about right?

[Super Sapper]

You can save up to finish all at once but will need to still be careful of temperature when storing. The closer to syrup the better it will store.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Supper Sapper is right about getting it as close as possible to syrup. Your better off going over density and adjusting down than storing almost syrup. Don't waste the heat and ability to get it there on the evap.

[BoerBoel]

If you go over density (my problem is usually being under density) what do you add to bring in back to the correct density?

[raptorfan85]

You add raw sap or distilled water back into the syrup

[BoerBoel]

Would the distilled water or permeate from a RO system be the better option opposed to raw sap? I thinking the raw sap might introduce bacteria into the syrup. Or am I over thinking things.

[BoerBoel]

Forgot to ask earlier...
Considering the coffee urn was previously used, what should I use to clean out any residual coffee? I'm not a coffee person and would prefer not to have the syrup infused with coffee...unless there is such a thing as for coffee flavored maple syrup. Maybe it as costly as cinnamon, ginger or jalapeno maple syrup like billschi mentioned in his post in this thread...http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?32214-Birch-syrup!-Breaking-rules-but...&p=358846#post358846

There's a guy at a farmer's market here that charges $2/oz by adding cinnamon, ginger or jalapeno to his maple syrup when he bottles it. People are lined up at his table.

[Super Sapper]

Would the distilled water or permeate from a RO system be the better option opposed to raw sap? I thinking the raw sap might introduce bacteria into the syrup. Or am I over thinking things.
Sap will be fine as you will heat it to bottle and kill any bacteria in it.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Cleaning the urn is as easy as scrubbing with a good Scotch -Brite pad and Vinegar. Boil the Vinegar and scrub it will come clean.

[bmbmkr]

Vinegar yes, scotch pad no! If you use vinegar or even soap, a sponge or brush is all you should use. Scotch pads will scratch even Stainless steel and scratches are a favorite place for bacteria to accumulate.

[mol1jb]

If you go with higher end coffee urns or water heating urns some have temperature adjusting knobs so you can get the ideal temp for bottling. I have one like this and it works great. It is more expensive than a basic urn but still much cheaper than a water jacket bottler.

[Haynes Forest Products]

OH CRAP I guess Ill have to throw out every piece of equipment i own because I clean the hell out of them with the green pads and the includes the sinks, Evaporator, finisher, double tank water jacketed coffee maker, counter tops, 4 dairy tanks, releaser tanks (PVC) , inside of auto draw off valve, draw off temp probe after I scrape it with utility knife, all triclover fittings and pipes, inside my 2 RO PVC filter housings, filter trays, And if I see some staining inside my new SS syrup barrels I will get a stick and toss in a pad and scrub it around until it shines. But then again I also use them on my hands and face.

[minehart gap]

I'm with you Haynes (except for the hands and face, I'm much too pretty for that) I use Scotch bright pads everywhere. Sometimes it is the only way to get something clean.

Heat+vinegar+Scotch bright+elbow grease=clean

[bmbmkr]

I knew there would be some butthurt replies, there's always more than one way to skin a cat, and clean maple equipment. Fastest isn't always the best, best isn't always possible when the sap is running. Haynes, I'll be cruising your neck a the woods looking for that shiny scrap pile.

[Haynes Forest Products]

My feeling don't get hurt when it comes to maple. Everything in my shack is a tool that can be replaced if it fails. I run it like I stole it. I have a drawer of Snap On tools that I have cut in half or welded onto another tool to get the job done.

If you ever get out my way give me fair warning and Ill leave something shinny out for you. :lol:

[dannyac500]

For those of you using a coffee urn/water boiler. Do you notice any new nitre forming from the heating elements in the tank? Im looking at a 100 cup water boiler on amazon that has an adjustment from 120-212. My concern would be about releasing more nitre into the filtered syrup.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

You don't want to use the urn to heat the syrup from cold or room temperature or you are likely to overheat whats in contact with the element and get some niter. We usually go from the finisher through the filter press and into the urn to bottle when we are working in-season. Occasionally, we may have to turn the urn on for a minute or two to keep above 180 but haven't had any niter issues doing that. Urns work good as a bottler but not to heat with. Find another way to heat from cold or room temperature. When we bottle from our 5 gallon jugs in the off-season, we use the finisher which has a valve right on it and bottle directly from that and don't bother with the urn.

[dannyac500]

My plan would be to draw syrup off the evaporator, finish on my gas turkey cooker, pour right into my filtering setup and then pour into the Urn still hot. I guess my intent would be to heat from 150 (or whatever its at after filtering) back up to 185-190 in the urn to bottle. I wouldnt attempt to heat from ambient up to bottling temp.

[Biz]

I only bottle up in batches of about a gallon, I'm sure everyone does it somewhat differently but here's how I do it.

1. Set up filter cones (felt and 2-3 prefilter cones, preferrably dry) onto a rack. I use the cone filter optimizer rack.

2. Put a quart or two of water into the urn, put rack over top of urn, and plug it in until it starts to boil. The steam moistens the filters, and boiling the water gets the urn up to temperature so syrup doesn't cool when it is dumped in. Make sure it is hot just as the syrup is ready.

3. Bring syrup up to temperature and proper density in a stainless steel pot.

4. When syrup is ready, remove from heat, dump out the hot water from urn, set the rack on top, pour finished syrup in. I set the urn in the sink for this. Splashes happen.

5. Bottle syrup immediately. It will be about 190F. If prefilter plugs, pull out the top one and dump into second one. I don't often need to do this when using the optimizer rack, it usually runs through quite well.

6. If bottling in glass, I set the glass on the woodstove before bottling.

Dave

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

You should be OK with that approach Danny as long as the filtering goes good and the syrup doesn't cool too much. We also hang our urn over the evaporator to heat it up some before bottling. Biz's idea works too. If you don't do something you will again lose more heat when it hits the urn, another 10-20 degrees.

[valleyman]

Sounds perfect Biz for my level too.
I'm probably ordering an optimizer soon. Round one works well on the coffee urn?

[Trapper2]

I also do exactly like Biz. I'm usually finishing 5-6 gallons at a time. I may end up using 5-6 prefilters. 19492.

[antelope76]

I use the same process as Biz also. I usually filter all mine at the end of the season in one effort.

Anywhere from 15-20 gallons. I have 2 felt filters set up with a dozen pre filters in each.

This will be the first time using the optimizer rack. Can't wait to see how it works.

[red/one]

I use the same setup. The only problem I have is I use a synthetic cone filter and several paper filters and the synthetic filter always slows me down.

[wmick]

Tried the Coffee urn bottler yesterday.... Got the Urn on its "keep warm" cycle with water, and quickly replaced it with hot syrup. Preheated pots of cold syrup (which had been filtered off the evaporator) on the stove to about 200 and dumped through cone filters into a pail, which I poured into the urn... but the filtering process seemed to drop the temperature too much and the urn had trouble bringing it back up.
--So I changed it up.... Similar to the previous posts, except I hung the filters right inside the urn. Seems a little unorthodox that my filters were sitting there actually submerged in the hot syrup, but it seemed to work great.. I could pour the hot syrup from the stove directly into the urn/filter and put the lid on, without the cooling effect of pouring from a filter.. It just worked its way through the hot filter as needed, while I filled jars.
19910

[ecolbeck]

I disconnected the main heating element on my urn and just use the keep warm element. I set my cone filter on the coffee basket to hold it in place. I added a brewers thermometer to keep track of temp.