Let’s talk barrels

[Tweegs]

We’re going to expand and that means we’ll need to purchase bulk syrup.
I expect we need barrels for both transport and short term storage (month or so).
There’s more than a few options out there and we’re not sure how the bulk syrup game is played.

First, let’s look at the barrels themselves. Plan is to use SS.
Open head vs. closed head.
Seems the open head would be easy to clean, not sure how well it would seal.
Closed head might be easier to seal, but looks like it would be a huge pain to clean.
Preferences or thoughts?

Also, I plan on using a gantry crane to unload barrels from the truck. The attachment mechanism I’m looking at would pick the barrel up by the head.
https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/material-handling/drum-barrel/drum-lifters/global-industrial-open-closed-head-drum-li-er-1000-lb-capacity?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2ozEtuvL3AIVTiWBCh2rKQZREAkYASAB EgLrUfD_BwE
I think I’d be more comfortable with something that clamped around the barrel, but I’m not finding anything like it that could be used with an overhead crane.
You crane users…how do you pick a barrel up?

Does size matter :lol:?
If I showed up at your place to buy a barrel, would you be willing to sell 30 gallons, or would 55 gallons be the minimum?

Would you fill my barrel, or take mine in exchange for yours, hold my barrel as a deposit or accept a cash deposit for the barrel? How does this work…what’s normal and/or customary?

[maple flats]

I can't speak for others, but I only buy syrup. When I buy I either supply the barrel to be packed as it comes off the evaporator, or for anything I buy after that, I get their barrel and return it when empty. I have not had to pay a deposit, but some sellers might require it. I buy in what ever size they have, it is not pumped into my barrel.
For lifting barrels, I had one similar to what you link to, I did not like it. I now use one of these https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200673817_200673817 In fact I have 3 of them and can carry 1-2 or 3 barrels at a time. I use my tractor unless snow is piled too high to manuever the tractor to the sugarhouse door, in which case I use my mini excavator and lift just 1 or 2 at a time. They clamp on perfectly and are quick to attach and detach but they will never let loose with weight on them.
My barrels are mostly 26.5 gal with a few only 16 gal. The lift I reference will lift any size up to 80 gal, maybe more, but I only use tight head barrels. To clean them, I set them upside down (open bungs down) and I spray hot water in a wide spray pattern into the 2" bung hole for about 5 minutes. Then I let them drip. When the dripping stops I tilt them and reach in using a clean paper towel and remove what won't drain out. When I put the bung plug in, I leave it loose and set the barrel in an open sunny doorway for a few hours. Then I move the barrel to where I store them without tightening the bung. I never had a problem when I go to fill the bbl again, but I do a 1-2 minute rinse just in case and wipe them like I described above, but I then fill them, without totally drying them out.
I would not trust an open head drum for sealing, others may chime in on that.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I sell my syrup bulk to my supplier and they rinse it out and I get my SS barrel back. If you order your barrels you can have your company name stamped into them for a small price or free if you get the special or order a set amount. My drums have serial numbers etched into them for record keeping and recall tracking. I don't want someone else's drum in exchange for my new drum.

As far as lifting I have all 55's and my BX2370 Kubota tractor with forks will just barely lift it up onto my trailer. 30's would have made it a lot easier. I do need a drum dolly to get them around and out of the shack. I would trust the scissor drum clamp they clamp harder as you lift.

Depending on how many you plan on using and floor space I would make up a drum washer that allows you to put cleaner in the drum and slowly spin the drum end for end. I don't think you can hot pack a open ended clamp style drum because of the initial pressure when its hot and the inability to open when its cold and under vacuum.

Good questions and you do bring up good points tomponder.

[maple flats]

On the clamping style it was not the ability to clamp that I did not like, but rather that it required you to hold it in place while the lift was started and if you were off center it did not grab the drum. I do most of my lifting with no one else around and it was a hassle to lift the bucket a little then go to the barrel to verify it was lined up right, then back to raise the bucket more. Sometimes I needed just one trip back and forth, on others it took 2. Then I caught a sale on the ones I linked to and it had no issues, then I bought 2 more. I hook each to a short chain I loop thru the ring and the 2 chain hooks then slide onto a lip on the top, back side of my bucket. My short chains were made up, each is only 2' long with a grab hook on each end. They will lift any tight head barrel regardless of the diameter as long as it has a lip on the top. That lip can be any size, even ones with just a single fold and very thin, still grab. The way the clamps attach, the heavier the load the tighter they grab. Never had one slip and each can be attached with just 1 hand.
Haynes is right, I would never swap my barrel for one of theirs, mine have serial numbers and 10 of them have our name etched into the top.

[mbascom]

We handle thousands of barrels a year and would not recommend an open top barrel for liquid storage. Too much potential for leaks and too risky to pick them up from the top.

SS is a good choice. It's worth spending a little more up front when you are going to be storing hundreds (or thousands) of dollars worth of product in it. Stainless also keeps the syrup better than the other options out there. You'll want to double check the barrel itself before you buy them, not all maple barrels can be picked up from the top.

[maple flats]

I have had a comment that the link I put in reply #2 does not work. When I click on it I get to the item correctly, are others have an issue getting that link?

[BAP]

Works for me Dave

[maple flats]

Thanks. For any who can't get the link to work, go to Northern Tool and Equipment and search item # 52416

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

when i have bought bulk syrup, all the suppliers have let me take the barrels home . when finished i return them. only reason i bough barrels is for my own syrup

[Haynes Forest Products]

link worked for me. Man that is a scary looking drum clamp. Does it deform the edges of the lip?

[maple flats]

I have used them on all barrels from 16 gal up to 40 gal, from a simple flat doubled over lip to a rounded lip like on many syrup barrels, they do not damage the lip. They actually grip just below the lip, the lip only gives it a stopping point so it can't raise up. I have used them for at least 5-6 years.

[eagle lake sugar]

Go with stainless. The 40 gal. barrels are easier to handle for me. We've dealt with 55 gal. epoxy lined barrels and you have to be very careful applying air pressure to them, they will pop up very easily. Also, you're continually finding chunks of epoxy coating in the syrup.

[Haynes Forest Products]

My supplier will sell me steel epoxy lined drums for $40.00 but there ONE WAY ONLY they recycle them after one use. Times are a changing for the better and it will cost you money to play but in the long run its for the better.

Thanks Dave for the info on the clamp.

[Tweegs]

Thanks for the replies.

We’re breaking ground this weekend putting up a new garage and converting the existing garage to a licensed kitchen.
We’ve got about 400 sq ft to work with and we’re trying to stuff a small walk-in cooler in there along with all the other necessities.
Things might get a little tight, so keeping the foot print of the cooler right sized is a concern.
We’re thinking to size it for up to four 55 gallon barrels and a handful of 5 gallon containers, but start out using 30 or 40 gallon drums.
Good to know that there is enough flexibility in barrel size in the bulk market to accommodate our plans.

I like the lift Dave linked to, just one thought…if the jaws aren’t positioned exactly 180* apart, won’t that barrel tip slightly?
I’ve got to lower the barrel onto a set of casters to get it in the kitchen.
I don’t see it as much of an issue as long as the jaws aren’t wildly off position, but I don’t have any experience in this yet.

I don’t have any trouble lifting 5 gallon containers, but I wouldn’t want to try 10 gallons, let alone 30, 40 or 55.
Much as I like my doctor, an annual visit is more than enough…glove snapping vampire, that one there.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Good discussion and I don't want to divert from the topic so Ill start a new thread about walk in coolers.

[maple flats]

You can set it on casters easily. While you do want the clamps opposite each other, it only needs to be by eye, you don't need to measure. When I haul a full barrel to the sugarhouse, I do just one at a time and I set them on an 8 wheel dolly. The start of the floor just inside the door is poured on a slight slope, maybe 3" in 5' slope. I position the dolly with 2 of the eight wheels off the edge of the concrete and set the barrel on it without issue. When I haul full barrels from a storage unit about 1/4 mile away, I haul 2 or 3 barrels at a time, that is why I own 3 sets of the clamps. When I have my weight box on the back of the tractor I can lift and haul 3 full barrels, if no weight box I only lift 1 or the rear tires spin trying to get out of the driveway onto the road from the sugarhouse when there is snow or ice on the driveway.