Transferring from tank to tank using the siphon nmethod

[Haynes Forest Products]

OK class lets put on our thinking caps

What I'm thinking................Im not asking how you would transfer sap from tank to tank or if a pump would be better. I want to know if this would work. I'm going with 3 cage tanks at my two collection points. I use a 2" flex pipe between the tanks connected by cam-loc's at the drain ports. They will freeze up st times and then my 3 tanks become only one when they freeze up. I have had the single tank over flow because of the loss of volume.

Now work with me here. I want to make a secondary siphon tube between the tanks that when the first tank get almost full it will spill into a siphon tube transferring sap from tank 1 into tank 2 then when tank 1 and 2 get almost full they will then transfer into tank 3. NOW follow me on this I can do it with simple bulk head fitting located about 4" from the top of the tanks and just have all the tanks connected fo once one is full then it fills #2 and then once 1 and 2 are full it will go to #3. OK easy.

Now what if I connected all the tanks that have the bulk head fittings with transfer pipes fitted with internal down tubes would they create a siphon effects pulling the sap from tank to tank??

[Ultimatetreehugger]

I'm pretty sure that it would work. Can't say much more that. lol

[buckeye gold]

yes they would providing there was no sap in the receiving tank above the delivering pipe outlet to start with. If the outlet was not open it would become air-locked. however once a siphon is established it will hold as long as you don't allow air entrainement. You would want the sap level for overflow stair-stepped to lower levels from tank to tank. A check valve on each suction end to prevent backflow also. we used to use a method like this to fill a 6 compartment hauling tank for fish by pumping into one compartment only. Just don't get your third tank too low or all your sap will end up there and running over. Or just install a float shutoff at the last tank. The transfer tubes need set so they stay full. I have moved millions of gallons of water by siphon. The secret is air tight lines and level control.

[DrTimPerkins]

It might work, until liquid froze in the first tank blocking the drop tube. We connect the bottoms, but since things freeze up, we always just have simple overflows at the top. These are relatively simple and fool-proof.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I'm going for the top transfer tube idea because of the reliability of them. I agree with keeping it simple. I have had my bottom line connecting all the bottoms freeze and overflow with a second tank next to it empty. I always say that every time you add a system to help it moves the problem down stream. I was watching my tank level sensor show that my tank was almost full and then went to collect and it was overflowing because of clogged line.

[minehart gap]

Haynes, why not just use a tee and a float valve (cattle water trough style) into the first two. When each one fills, your sap will go to the next. No need to worry about your syphon hose getting a chunk of ice in it and not working.

[wiam]

Haynes, google uniseal. Cheaper than bulkheads. They work well if you drill a clean hole.

[lew]

Why bother siphoning? A simple overflow from tank to tank will be as simple as you can get and work without having to perform any "tricks".

[PerryFamily]

I’m with Wim on this. I do exactly this at one area I buy sap from
No plumbing to freeze. Only bummer is have to pump 4 tanks versus a single suction point if it had a drain manifold. We use 1-1/2” overflows

[buckeye gold]

I think what Haynes is after with a siphon is the ability to empty all the tanks from the last one......is that what your after Haynes?

[maple flats]

Just thinking on the keyboard, but why wouldn't it work the way you have it, if you put some 1" thick pipe insulation on the bottom connecting lines, then maybe a simple over flow as back up? If it freezes hard enough to freeze the insulated lines wouldn't the incoming sap lines also be frozen. Maybe put a heat tape inside the insulation and have a inverter on your sap hauler for emergency use to thaw a line (or a small generator).

[Haynes Forest Products]

Ill go the redundancy route because I do have my tanks connected with cam-locs on the bottom ports. I use 2" tiger flex and hook up my sap hauler to it to pump out. The problem starts when you get a good hard freeze at night right after I pump it out leaving a small un removable amount in the lines. That is overcome when new warmer sap fills the tank the next day. BUT when the temps stay down for a few days then its is a problem. The next big run fills just the single releaser tank and then overflows. My tank sensor shows full and that is only for the one tank.

Ill go the high point transfer line solution using bulk head fittings and cam-locs because I need flexibility because I install my tanks on uneven ground because of ice and snow and by the end of the season they have shifted and settled. Waim I have some of the seals you mentioned from a sump pit I used and they do work well but you need a solid type of line to keep them sealed in place.

The way I pump from my tanks is I have the 2" tiger Flex hose with a T installed so I drain both tanks at the same time. I have a 5' length of it that I cap with a Cam-loc cover so if the hose drops below the sap level it doesn't drain out. Now when I hook up to my sap hauler in the morning and drom the transfer hoses on the ground the sap will flow by gravity into the pump so I don't need to prime the pump every morning. Now that I have 110 volt power at the tanks fgor my tank sensors maybe heat tape is in my future.

I tired of pulling up to the tanks and seeing a big wet area about 10' across in the snow where the overflowing sap has melted it away.

[maple flats]

My woods tanks are big enough that one tank handles the sap, but on my receiving tanks at the sugarhouse I have 3 tied together with 1.5" TigerFlex hose. When we get a hard freeze the line from my 3 tanks on the ground to the RO freezes. When it does, I just plug in the heat tape I placed in the pipe insulation when I set the tanks up. I used a commercial heat tape which is 7 watts/foot, the homeowner types are generally 3.5 watts/foot. When needed the ice melts in about 20-30 minutes depending on how hard the freeze was. My haul tanks for when I collect are 275 gal IBC's, for that I have 2 connected together, but I fill and drain them one at a time (So I never have two tanks of sap 2/3-9/10 full). I have never had that freeze because I always pump then empty as soon as they arrive at the sugarhouse. On my haul trailer I also have a 3rd 275 IBC which carries permeate, but I only fill that to about 100 gal max. When I finish pumping the sap from the woods tank I turn the pump (Honda WX15 ) around, attach a reducer to 5/16 and pump the permeate to clean the tank. It works very well.
At the sugarhouse I use a 1 HP SS 1" electric pump to clean each tank after it empties, but since the higher film on the sides is not still wet I usually need to use a tank brush to clean them along with the 5/16 spray.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I also use heat tape for my stationary tanks around the shack I have 2 SS dairy sap tanks that are plumbed together and into the RO. My 5) 275 cage tanks are all plumbed together with 1 1/2 PVC and they all have the heat tape insulation treatment. I leave them on from start to finish of the season and it works great. I just got done moving the tanks and elevating them up 24" for better pump priming. I spent this week building a rock wall and putting in 14 yds of road base to make room for my Concentrate tank Ill be installing for the upcoming season. I head to Nebraska to see the unit and cut a deal for it.