What happened to tin_mans thread

[johnallin]

Curious as to why this thread was deleted and not locked.

[DrTimPerkins]

Curious as to why this thread was deleted and not locked.

My guess would be that it had something to do with http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?30904-MapleTrader-Forum-Rules&p=335109#post335109

[Tin_Man]

For everyone's information.....I was expecting it to be deleted, didn't expect it to last as long as it did. This morning I noticed 5 out of my 7 posts were removed from the thread, several hours later the entire thread was removed. Nobody notified me prior to doing this. I tried keeping all my posts civil and to the point, don't think it was anything I said besides mentioning a company by name.

I'm willing to bet bet this thread gets deleted.

[Russell Lampron]

I'm thinking that when members from the other forum started showing up over here and putting in there 2 cents that the mods figured it was time to delete the thread before it got ugly.

I the other thread my thought is that Jim should have sent Tim_Man a pm and his only reply to that thread should have been "PM sent". That way members following it could have seen that Jim was aware of the problem and starting the communication needed to resolve the issue.

[Tin_Man]

Russell Lampron....yes, if whats-his-name had sent me a PM as you stated things would have worked out much differently. As for deleting the thread, the thread should have been locked instead of deleted. The info in it was good and would have been beneficial to someone doing research and looking to buy.

BTW...it probably isn't a good idea to use the J word or company acronym here, at least not in any way that can be considered negative.

[maple flats]

I can only guess because I did not delete it, but my guess is that it became too far off track from what this forum is supposed to be. I was starting to think I'd delete it, but when I got back from my sugarhouse it had been done.

[BAP]

According to a PM I just received, Tin_Man is a fake name and the owner of this site confirmed it and removed the thread.

[johnallin]

My guess would be that it had something to do with http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?30904-MapleTrader-Forum-Rules&p=335109#post335109

Understood, but it does appear that the poster had attempted to resolve his issues with the manufacturer..as outlined in Forum Rules Line 4 below.
- Excessive disparagement of manufacturers or products is not allowed. Specific discussion of products and services is permitted, but the expectation is that members will first attempt to resolve issues with the supplier first and not use this forum to complain or to bash individuals, companies, or products. -

Deleting offensive posts, and posters if need be, in lieu of the entire thread, may have better served the maple community.
After all Jim S. had requested Maple Flats to keep it going with thoughts of it ultimately having a good outcome.

[Tin_Man]

BAP....of course Tin_Man is a fake name, it's a name I made up specifically for this site, I do have a God given name but for obvious reasons I prefer not to use it when posting. Probably 99% of the people that post use fake names otherwise known as an alias. Is BAP your real name? Lol, you're actually making me laugh!

[Tin_Man]

In the thread that started all this I was positive I followed all the forum rules especially:
Forum Rules Line 4 below.
- Excessive disparagement of manufacturers or products is not allowed. Specific discussion of products and services is permitted, but the expectation is that members will first attempt to resolve issues with the supplier first and not use this forum to complain or to bash individuals, companies, or products.

Most likely, but I can't be certain but, the thread removal wasn't because of what was posted or because of not following forum rules, it was because of the name of the company involved. If it was a lesser known company or individual the thread would still be there as it was a civil conversation and contained nothing disparaging or incorrect. I specifically stated several times that I was very happy with the product and tried to resolve the issues over the course of several weeks before posting. Several individuals posts toward the end weren't in the best taste but they had nothing to do with my original post or the way I expressed my thoughts. This forum may have been better served to only remove those several posts toward the end rather than removing the entire thread. I know that is possible because immediately before the thread was removed 5 out of my 7 posts were removed.

I do have my own thoughts as to why my posts were deleted then the entire thread removed, but I'll keep this to myself as it's only conjecture and nothing I can prove or verify. This forum is owned and moderated by individuals that can do what they please with whatever is posted, it's their right. We may not agree with them all the time but this forum is theirs to do with as they please. We are only guests in their house.

One thing I can be certain of is will never post anything good or bad, about any particular company. However my situation with a specific company turns out I'll keep to myself.

[DrTimPerkins]

I did not remove the thread. In my opinion, the original post was probably not the cause of removal, but the aftermath was. It's too bad to have lost the whole thing, but it had clearly exceeded the rules of this site.

I can tell you from experience that on occasion, things can get a bit heated on the forum. I will also say, not being someone who has been involved or experienced in the world of sales, that I learned some interesting, harsh, and very surprising lessons after the CV came out. It seems that the saying "all is fair..." is very appropriate. As scientists we are trained to have thick skin and to debate ideas with veracity, but that is nothing at all like the world of sales. I think I've learned a bit over the years to not take it so personally, but it sure is difficult not to. You may get a thicker skin, but it still hurts.

Again, personally, I hope that "Tin_Man"'s issue with his SL order is resolved soon and that this serves as a lesson for all involved.

Finally, with this medium of communication it is hard to convey emotion -- good or bad. It is sometimes good to take a step back from the keyboard for a little while and see there is further clarification on a subject, or whether you still react with the same intensity a few hours (or days) later.

[Tin_Man]

Dr. Tim Perkins....I'm not trying to be argumentative or disrespectful but your statement: "hope that "Tin Man's" issue with his SL order is resolved soon and that this serves as a lesson for all involved" has me wondering what the lesson to be learned here is? About the only lesson I see is that if someone makes a legitimate post about something that one or two people don't like, all the minority has to do is post several crude or disparaging comments and the entire thread is removed. Seems to me like the majority who are trying to learn here are the losers and the minority (trolls & spammers) are the winners. Very similar to whats happening with our society lately.

Let me summarize what I've learned:

1. It's a waste of time and energy to post anything negative about a company, positive posts are allowed.

2. Forums are similar to television networks,....if advertisers hit the networks with removal of advertising dollars the networks will capitulate.

3. If for whatever reason I don't like a particular thread all I have to do is create several profiles and bombard the thread with crude and disparaging comments and the thread will be removed.

4. Friends are are always good to have. The more friends a person has the more leeway that person has and it's much easier to get things done for you, whether right or wrong.

5. Perception is reality. If a person can appear knowledgeable or successful it doesn't matter if they can actually do or provide what they claim.

[Haynes Forest Products]

This is what I know My name is Chuck Haynes my Maple Trader name is Haynes Forest Products my phone number is common knowledge. When I do any business I clearly state my name. I answer my phone by stating my name. If I was to call a company with a complaint I make dang sure they know who I am and what the issues are. I would expect to be ignored if I refused to identify myself. Now I know I know you think that Jim should involve the entire office staff trying to identify you. I see some holes in your complaint. You say there was damage to your equipment but you didn't contact the shipper with a claim or they would have notified Jim and there would be an open file. It says right on your packing slip to immediately contact the carrier if there is any damage. Now I have never taken possession of a large item without inspecting the outside before signing the ticket.

Unless your willing to identify yourself by the name you gave Jim when you ordered your pans then I believe you should stop this game your playing that has now involved every person on this site. You may ask what is my interest in all of this? Because My phone is still blowing up from trolls that are in contact with you. I have over 45 texts from XYZ who said you told him your not thru that more is coming. They have only come onto this site to keep the pot boiling. Now its time to crap or get off the pot.

[Tin_Man]

Haynes Forest Products:

If you are having problems with trolls calling and harassing you that's your problem, don't lay it on me.

Never played any game, all I did was clearly state my case and several people freaked on you or so you say, nobody bothered or harassed me. If anything I made some friends from this site that are local and in the maple industry, I don't consider that a bad thing. They've offered to assist me getting my system up and going for next season, they don't seem like trolls to me.

No idea who this XYZ is, never had any contact with him. Did you ever think that maybe he's harassing you because he knows it's making you crazy? Block his phone number, that will eliminate his texts. Done, issue resolved.

I have no intention of mentioning or discussing my issue with what's-his-name anymore through this site, by telephone, email or text, it's over and done. I've sucked it up & moved on.

You seem intent on dragging a dead horse thru the mud. Let it go.

I have no control of how other people react to my posts or any post. If you're being harassed you have the power to block calls & people and remove people from this site. Do it. Don't blame me for your problem.

[johnallin]

Unless your willing to identify yourself by the name you gave Jim when you ordered your pans ....

Chuck,I understand what you're saying but, in all fairness, it appears that the poster did try to contact the vendor many times over a fairly lengthy period with no results. I don't see why we need to get up in arms or delete this thread.

It's a simple case of customer service - the customer called and didn't get a return call. The longer it goes the more it starts to look bad for the manufacturer. I don't think Leader, CDL or the others would get by any easier.

Only my 2 cents, but manufacturing is a competitive world and forums such as this - just as in sailing, bee keeping, hunting or whatever - can be a great resource for reviews of a vendor's performance both before and after the sale. I think it's all good and as long as it stays civil could be a wake up call for those involved.

[xyz5150]

Chuck,I understand what you're saying but, in all fairness, it appears that the poster did try to contact the vendor many times over a fairly lengthy period with no results. I don't see why we need to get up in arms or delete this thread.

It's a simple case of customer service - the customer called and didn't get a return call. The longer it goes the more it starts to look bad for the manufacturer. I don't think Leader, CDL or the others would get by any easier.

Only my 2 cents, but manufacturing is a competitive world and forums such as this - just as in sailing, bee keeping, hunting or whatever - can be a great resource for reviews of a vendor's performance both before and after the sale. I think it's all good and as long as it stays civil could be a wake up call for those involved.


Where's the like button! After 21 years of being self employed myself I couldn't agree more. I run a micky mouse operation and actually talk to 99% of my customers and rarely do I not call a missed call back within the hour. Not trying to be disrespectful but some people are better off working for someone else rather that running a business.

[maple flats]

My thought on this matter at this point is that Tin_Man is getting close to being removed from the way he (or she) is handling this matter. As I said, I did not remove it but I was getting ready to. My reason was not the original post but rather the way it became a bashing of a company. That is not allowed regardless of the company and regardless of whether they advertise on this forum or not. It is simply one of the basic rules as pointed out by Dr Tim Perkins.
Tin_Man, my suggestion to you is to contact the company and request whatever you have a problem in regards to your purchase and secondly to contact the owner of this site, Peter Gregg, because I suspect he deleted the post as I think all of the moderators say they did not do it, and we have no moderators who would hide in the cloak of anonymity.

[Haynes Forest Products]

John Allin I absolutely agree that customer service is key to keeping customers happy and to growing your business. This thread went beyond a simple post about being unhappy. Its to full of holes from an anonymous poster. I give no credibility to his claims without his real name. At this point he is no better than the Wizard of OZ behind the curtain. Yanking, pulling and cranking behind a curtain. I ain't buying it.

I will fully apologize if I'm proven wrong and everything he says is true until now its just a rant.

[DrTimPerkins]

Dr. Tim Perkins....I'm not trying to be argumentative or disrespectful but your statement: "hope that "Tin Man's" issue with his SL order is resolved soon and that this serves as a lesson for all involved" has me wondering what the lesson to be learned here is? About the only lesson I see is that if someone makes a legitimate post about something that one or two people don't like, all the minority has to do is post several crude or disparaging comments and the entire thread is removed.

Tin_Man,

1. I have not taken any side in this argument.
2. My “lesson” advice was general and not directed at anyone in particular. Each reader can take whatever lesson they choose.
3. Re-read the last paragraph of my previous post.

[xyz5150]

My thought on this matter at this point is that Tin_Man is getting close to being removed from the way he (or she) is handling this matter. As I said, I did not remove it but I was getting ready to. My reason was not the original post but rather the way it became a bashing of a company. That is not allowed regardless of the company and regardless of whether they advertise on this forum or not. It is simply one of the basic rules as pointed out by Dr Tim Perkins.
Tin_Man, my suggestion to you is to contact the company and request whatever you have a problem in regards to your purchase and secondly to contact the owner of this site, Peter Gregg, because I suspect he deleted the post as I think all of the moderators say they did not do it, and we have no moderators who would hide in the cloak of anonymity.

You're going to ban Tin Man? Dang!!!!

[Tin_Man]

Of course I'm going to be banned. I spoke negatively about what's-his-name and his company. What's-his-name is friends with this site owner and doesn't want me posting anything negative about him or his company. In the thread that started all this one of the moderators said that Jim wanted the post to remain and not be deleted, he said he was learning from it....if anyone believes this I have a nice bridge for sale. Most likely the reason it took 2 days to remove the thread was that was probably how long it took what's-his-name to figure out how to get it removed. Let this be a warning to everyone, don't speak negatively or you will also be banned. The fear of being banned is the way a site keeps everyone in line.

Maple Flats.....I don't know what I did or said that has everyone so angry and upset. I started a thread about poor customer service from a company whose name I will not mention, I never bashed the product or company. I factually stated my case. I sat back and watched the follow up post come in, next thing I know moderators my thread is removed and moderators are telling me i'm going to be removed from this site because of the negative posts. I have absolutely no control over what someone posts, I have no idea how you can blame me for someone elses posts.

You say I'm close to being removed for the way I'm handling this matter and it has nothing to do with my original post. I stated my case and others started piling on. Maybe it's the name of the company I mentioned that gets everyone mad here. I never bashed the company it was other posters that were doing the bashing yet for some reason you say that I'm handling the matter in a way you don't approve.

BTW....I'm a he, like in my profile name Tin _MAN not Tin_Woman.

Anyone want to bet that my profile will be removed faster than a speeding bullet?

[DrTimPerkins]

I’m going to suggest a possible solution. Repost your original message from the other thread if you wish. Then SL can reply if they wish. No other comments allowed — pro or con. After that, the moderators lock the thread.

Neither moderator deleted the original thread. I didn’t feel it bashed the company unduly. It was the follow up comments that I suspect led to it being removed.

[McKenney Maples]

It seems like the threads always start off in an acceptable fashion, but the comments that follow take things down the wrong path.

[Tin_Man]

Dr. Tim Perkins. Thank you for the offer and I'll consider it. The post that started all this was quite lengthy and took me a good amount of of time to write, not sure I want to go thru all that again at this point. Again, thank you for the offer.

[xyz5150]

Lots of Maple News advertisers are taking notes on how all of this is being handled right now....

[berkshires]

Lots of Maple News advertisers are taking notes on how all of this is being handled right now....

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I've seen forums that are were completely deserted due to overly-heavy-handed moderation. If enough posters feel that they are not wanted, they'll reluctantly find somewhere else to go. It's sad when it happens, and I do hope it doesn't happen here.

GO <-- By the way, those are my initials, which I use to sign all documents, and I'm happy to share my full name with anyone who cares.

[berkshires]

Dr. Tim Perkins. Thank you for the offer and I'll consider it. The post that started all this was quite lengthy and took me a good amount of of time to write, not sure I want to go thru all that again at this point. Again, thank you for the offer.

Google has a copy cached if you want it.

Cheers,

GO

[DrTimPerkins]

I run a micky mouse operation ....

In an attempt to lighten the conversation....XYZ...any chance you can fix my saw?

18691

Disclaimer: This is a joke. It is meant to be funny. It is not meant to be insulting to anyone.

[Sunday Rock Maple]

"Discipline ought to be used" Henry V, act 3, scene 6

[Jim Schumacher]

"Discipline ought to be used" Henry V, act 3, scene 6

I agree. 100%.

[Jim Schumacher]

In the original post, the original post from the username "tin_man" claimed that they received a 2'x8' evaporator in a crate...

Guess what people, it's Monday and my office staff is in. So is the shipping department. In 2017, nor in 2018, did a single 2'x8' Evaporator leave our facility in a crate. Every one of them was shipped with our own trucks or with our private carrier, NEVER crated.


Username "tin_man" claimed to have talked to Jennie, our accountant and receptionist last week about broken and missing pieces, claiming she told "them" that Angela and I are "on vacation".

I confirmed with Jennie, immediately last week, that no such person called. I also confirmed that Jennie never told anyone that Angela and I were "on vacation".



In the original post, username "tin_man" claimed that I told him that I'm waiting for material from Home Depot to build a crate...

I've never bought a piece of lumber from a Home Depot and Smoky Lake hasn't built a crate in house for over four years.



In the original post from username "tin_man", I told them I couldn't find their info, please email me.....

username, "tin_man" openly said that they "don't want to share who I am".... come on people.



There are a dozen or more other "oppositions to the truth" that I can prove, most of them are apparent. You know what though? When I read that original post, even I thought it was real. Even I thought that somehow an underserved customer slipped through from last season, despite our relentless efforts to serve every person that we could, despite never ever having to look over my shoulder my entire life.


So, username "tin_man" . Here's your last chance. Prove yourself. Prove that you're a Smoky Lake customer who bought a faulty 2'x8' last season with unresolved service issues. Prove at least half of the claims you made in you original post. You said that we've emailed on several occasions, how about a quick screenshot of a conversation regarding this transaction? You said that you started a claim with the shipping company (something that the receiver cannot do, only the sender can create a claim for damaged goods, no exceptions). To create this claim, the first thing the shipping company needs is pictures of the full crate and picutres of the damage. I don't see why you would object to sharing these pictures, post them please.


The reason I didn't want the last thread to be removed is because of an excellent tidbit of knowledge I received from my most recent employer. Right out of high school, and even during my senior year, I worked in an apprenticeship to become a journeyman, eventually master, plumber in addition to working at a machine shop on the side. My boss at the plumbing shop was an excellent mentor, he gave me my own service truck at a very young age and so early in my plumbing career that it was barely legal for me to be working on my own. I worked directly with customers, often a dozen per day. Most were very happy, but naturally some were not fully satisfied. Calvin tought me to always call on the ones that were left than satisfied, no matter how awkward it may be, because when you correct and issue with a customer who was formally dissatisfied, they will be your most loyal of clients forever forward. I've found this lesson to be 100% true through my entire life.

That doesn't work when the customer isn't amicable, or is fictional.

[Jim Schumacher]

Keep in mind, I WANT username tin_man to prove me wrong. I'd rather have a customer that I can help than to believe that someone would pull a stunt like this. But even if I'm proven wrong the motive for this user to start a membership here still needs to be examined. This username's reasons to push it to this point has to be examined. His reasons for not reaching me during this interim perplex me. Why I didn't receive a call from such an "exasperated customer" while I personally handled the phones for two months after the season make me wonder why this is now here, there would of course be a reason which would then need to be uncovered.

I just don't know. We shall see.

[Tin_Man]

Okay, I'm going to start replying to what was said in the above post. Luck for once is on my side, I saved copies of every email I had with you-know who. I also have pics documenting items. I also have email where I was told what's-his name is on vacation. This is going to take me some time, there is personal info in the emails and phone records that s not for public consumption. I'm going to have to print out email, redact what I don't want made public then take a pic of the redacted email before I post it.

Here's my dilemma...I have no good reason to prove to anyone that my claims are true, I stand nothing to gain but have a lot to loose. If I drop the whole issue it makes me look like I'm a troll or spammer but that doesn't affect me only my pride. If my profile gets deleted I'm no worse for wear. If I do post pictures of my system, post copies of my phone records and email correspondence, what's-his-name will know who I am and I still need several items from this company that I've already paid for that don't fit correctly and the damaged items. It would be very easy for him to drop me like a hot potato. This is a monetary loss. I have to weigh the possibility of taking taking a monetary loss against my pride and loosing the respect of the Maple Trader community. The easy way out is to do nothing and don't bother coming back to this forum, the benefit of doing nothing is I can most likely get my system going for next season. I need time to think about this. If anyone can help me make the correct decision I'm willing to listen.

I'll briefly go thru some of the highlights of what's-his names above post.

1. Username "tin_man" claimed to have talked to Jennie, our accountant and receptionist last week about broken and missing pieces, claiming she told "them" that Angela and I are "on vacation".

I confirmed with Jennie, immediately last week, that no such person called. I also confirmed that Jennie never told anyone that Angela and I were "on vacation".

*** I have email & phone records of being told this.


2. In the original post, username "tin_man" claimed that I told him that I'm waiting for material from Home Depot to build a crate...

I've never bought a piece of lumber from a Home Depot and Smoky Lake hasn't built a crate in house for over four years.

**** My original post never said this. What I said in the original post was I was told "The weather is bad and nobody can make it to Home Depot to get the wood to build the crate for my evaporator." This was in a phone conversation with the office manager and I have no written record of the conversation, it was just that...a phone conversation.

3. In the original post from username "tin_man", I told them I couldn't find their info, please email me.....

username, "tin_man" openly said that they "don't want to share who I am".... come on people.

**** No idea where this came from. I still have a copy of my original post that I may repost. When I was writing it I did it on my word processor and I saved a copy. It's easier to compose on the word processor then cut & paste when finished than it is to keep battling forum timeouts.

4.. In the above post you say I said I got a faulty evaporator. I never said that, not even once. I actually went out of my way numerous times to specifically say that I have absolutely no fault with anything I received, my issue was with customer service and the lack thereof.

5. You say that I said started a claim with the shipping company for damaged items. I never said that, what I did say is that I contacted your company regarding damaged items, pictures were sent as your office as I was told to do via email when my system was being shipped. I have these pictures and the associated email.

6. if I'm proven wrong the motive for this user to start a membership here still needs to be examined

****** Do I need a motive to join a forum that pertains to something I'm trying to learn about after I've just spent a lot of money on equipment?? I joined so I could learn what to do, I've never used a professional evaporator in my life, my only experience with making syrup was on a 2 burner camp stove using a SS flat pan I found somewhere at a yard sale years ago. I came here to get info and possibly make some local friends that are involved in the maple industry. I didn't create an account so I can disparage someone or his product, I have better things to do with my time. I'm not a big forum, internet or computer type of person...actually I hate computers and don't understand them in the least. I don't usually post on forums I mainly lurk. This was one of the rare instances I posted on a forum and that was because I needed help. Nothing nefarious about this.

I may repost my original post that was deleted so everyone can reread it. Although I don't have it, it sounds like there's a backup copy of the entire deleted thread stored somewhere on the internet, but it's beyond my computer knowledge how to retrieve it. Maybe someone out there knows how to get it and can post it again.

One last item, I'm 90% positive what's-his-name knows who I am although I can't prove it.....that's why I'm erring on the side of caution and not divulging my identity, there's that 10% uncertainty factor. He's sly like a fox and coyote combined. For reasons known only to him he's trying to act dumb about this which I know he isn't.

[DrTimPerkins]

Repost your original message from the other thread if you wish.


The post that started all this was quite lengthy and took me a good amount of of time to write, not sure I want to go thru all that again at this point.


I still have a copy of my original post that I may repost. When I was writing it I did it on my word processor and I saved a copy. It's easier to compose on the word processor then cut & paste when finished than it is to keep battling forum timeouts.

I may repost my original post that was deleted so everyone can reread it.

I do not want to take sides in this argument, but I am probably not the only one who views these two statements as being rather inconsistent.

Right now the two of you are in a pissing contest, but all of us are getting wet. I understand some people enjoy that sort of thing, but I'm definitely not one of them and have to assume that most of this group feels the same way.

Tin_Man. If, as you say, you have evidence of these issues, I think the easiest thing at this point would be to call Smoky Lake right now, get your issues resolved, and then report back here how it was fixed or not fixed. I say this not as a defender of SL or Jim or anyone else, but just someone who thinks that this problem will not be resolved by further action on this site. What would be most telling to this group is whether you can finally manage to get it resolved within a few weeks, or not. Seems like both parties have good reason to want to get this behind them at this point. Since SL has no way to contact you Tin_Man, it is up to you to call them.

To give that suggestion a little time to sink in (on both sides), this thread is now locked (but not deleted). If it is resolved within a few weeks, let us know. If it is not resolved, let us know.