power choices

[steam maker]

well had power company up to give a price on upgrade to power to the farm/sugarhouse today . wrong answer power company so im exploring another avenue. found a used 35 kw diesel generater , thinking of running that to run sugarhouse instead. alot cheaper than the price from power company. anybody else have to run generator to power there toys? pros and cons thanks

[maple flats]

Noisy, needs fuel and maintenance, plus a breakdown can ruin a whole lot of sap and cause extreme stress.
I ran 2 generators thru 2012, then that fall I paid the shot for grid power, so glad I did. When generating your own power pyou pay far more than what it would be from the grid and in a few short years the fuel and other costs add up to far more than what you would have paid the power company to put power in.
This statement however needs to be balanced against the utility install price, mine was only $12,000, and their prices depend on distance. Just be sure to factor in as much of the generator costs as you can before making the decision.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

The 5400 tap operation we work for ran a diesel generator until they got power 5 years ago. They figured the generator was about triple the cost per year as having power. 3 residences chose to split the $66,000 cost to run power 3/4 mile up the road. And most expect the payback to be about 6-8 years with the initial $22,000 each investment. Prior to that some ran generators and some solar. It's a lot of dough up front but in the end the dollars and cents is a no-brainer. Probably a longer payback if it is just for sugar house but it will pay itself back I believe. What was the price?

[steam maker]

price from power company was ten grand , plus i would need to trench 575 ft and i would install the conduit. also have to pour a pad for a transformer. then from transformer the electrician takes over and runs new wires to meter box and new panel. i have a 100 amp now coming underground from house so i could run ro all day on that no problem, just trying to figure on running ro and oil gun at same time , plus lights and small compressor. so really generater wouldnt be my only power , just kind of a extra “boost” when needed

[steam maker]

generator is 3 grand from my buddy that installs generaters for a living,

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

I see, you definitely don't need as much power as a full blown operation but then again nice to have everything in one spot as you mentioned. So apples to apples, the power may be about $10,000 correct? Assuming the cost of the generator is about the same as the odds and ends electrical work? I'd save my pennies......$10,000 is a lot but what do you have in that RO, vacuum setup and evaporator? That's just the way I look at things I guess.

[steam maker]

good point , guess ill start saving and try and figure a cheap fix for this coming yr. maybe if i can limp by for a yr or two i can dig trench and install conduit when i get money saved and then work on power company money.

[n8hutch]

What are you paying for in that 10k number from power company just out of curiosity? I guess I just curious what the cost break downs are? Will you own the Transformer? I ran a new service to my house, granted it was only 200ft, but it was 200 amps, plus a new panel in the house , i even ran an extra 3" conduit in the trench for future and I was only at 3k. That was paying an electrician and public service.

That just seems way high.

[steam maker]

wire and transformer, there wages to install the wire and transformer. i have to pay for trenching!! i have to pay for conduit!! i have to pay electrician to get wire from transformer to sugarhouse !! along with trenching that trench and conduit from transformer to sugarhouse i would need to buy that wire also.

[steam maker]

its 350 ft from rd to pole on our driveway , then its 565 ft from pole to sugarhouse. i would own ground mounted transformer and wire . aparently my electrician told me that a few days ago they had a nice breakfast meeting with eversource and alot of the pricing and who owns what and who pays for what has changed.

[n8hutch]

I see, so a lot of it is probably in the Transformer and all those wages, I'm not sure I would want to own a Transformer but I guess the last awhile.

[SeanD]

I dug the trench to my sugar house. It sucked. There's no two ways about digging in New England. And there's no cutting corners. It gets inspected before the conduit goes in. It got to the point I was happy to hit a big run of ledge because you can stop digging and plan to cap that section with concrete. When it turned out to just be a massive rock - with another massive rock underneath it, well... that sucked.

That said, it's a memory now and it's nice to have outlets, lights and switches. All of the work and materials can be claimed as an expense which is a nice thing for years ahead. If you can meter the sugar house separately, it's easy to itemize a claim for the electricity used each season, too.

[wiam]

I have a 100 amp service. I’m running a 900 gph ro. Carlin 701. 4500 watt canner. Plus lights and wash tank heater and compressor. I do not know why it works. You might be surprised.

[maple flats]

At $10,000 it would only take a few years just figuring generator fuel to get that back. When I did mine at $12,000 it was $8000 for the utility co. and the rest was ours. We dug a 350' trench, laid in PVC Sch 80 conduit and ran to a meter pole just outside the sugarhouse. The grid part was 250' of line (first 100 no charge) then we had to pay for 1 pole, that they mounted the transformer on. The other $4,000 was from that pole to the sugarhouse, a 200 A disconnect, a meter socket (they used to be no charge) and the rest of the wiring and 225A breaker box in the sugarhouse. As soon as that was turned on it was super to have grid power rather than needing to start a generator and during the season we used to have 2 gennies going, a 5500 watt gas and a 6000 watt diesel. Glad I did. My power was turned on on 11/26/12 and I've already saved that much in fuel, not to even factor in the convenience.

[steam maker]

my electrician/generater guy is gonna come down with his meter and see what we can do . i should explain a little different even if i get generator im still gonna leave the 100 amp service from existing source . i have a feeling if i ro to 16 or 18 my ro isnt gonna keep up with new evaporater. so ill be roing most of the day off the existing power and if i need to ro while boiling and the 100 amps service wont do it then ill run generator. the generater will not be my primary source of power just there if needed. also the generater will be big enough if we lose power while boiling i can run the sugarhouse and keep boiling. if that makes more sense?

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Is it possible to hire a private contractor that does work for your power company? As long as it is done to their standards, they can’t say much. Might save a few bucks.

[steam maker]

not sure ? i can ask on monday

[BAP]

My biggest question to them would be why do you need a ground mounted transformer? Usually transformers are on the mainline at the road, not at the termination point on your property. Also, is this a whole new service or just an upgrade?

[steam maker]

they said because of distance from rd power i would need it ,and depending on the choice i picked one would be a upgrade to existing service the other option is a whole new 200 to sugarhouse. service now goes 200 to house then splits and 100 goes to my sugarhouse. i may just leave the 100 amp alone and deal with it for now .

[GeneralStark]

I have a 100 amp service. I’m running a 900 gph ro. Carlin 701. 4500 watt canner. Plus lights and wash tank heater and compressor. I do not know why it works. You might be surprised.

Try turning all those things on at once....

[wiam]

Try turning all those things on at once....
They all run at once. I don’t know why.

[mellondome]

i have a 100 amp now coming underground from house so i could run ro all day on that no problem, just trying to figure on running ro and oil gun at same time , plus lights and small compressor. so really generater wouldnt be my only power , just kind of a extra “boost” when needed

You list a cdl 600 which at most will only draw 30 amps. So unless your oil gun and compressor have huge hp motors on them. I dont see why you would need to upgrade to run an oil arch.

[GeneralStark]

They all run at once. I don’t know why.

Sorry I meant start them all at once. My point is that you are probably not starting them all at once, which is when there is a higher draw, so that is why you are likely ok for now....

[mountainvan]

I also have 100 amp service with ro, oil burner, light, electric heaters, water heater, my snuggly electric blanket, small refrigerator, water pump.... Basically everything at my old house/ sugarcamp.

[steam maker]

well by golly maybe im over thinking thing here!! guess i dont understand y if my ro only needs 30 amps why does electrician have it on a 65 amp breaker? but we will give it a whirl and if worse comes to worse ill admit defeat and figure it out then . love to have a water pump and water heater out there too but theres another bag of apples

[maple flats]

Get a clamp on load meter like this https://www.tequipment.net/ExtechETK35.html?Source=googleshopping&/?utm_content=clamp%20on%20AC%20load%20tester%20for %20electrical%20equipment&utm_term=&utm_campaign=Shopping%20Campaign(BSC)&utm_source=Bing_Yahoo&utm_medium=cpc and test all of the loads on surge start. That is only an example, there are lots to choose from so look around.
The breaker may be oversized to account for the starting surge, or the electrician may not be your best friend. In general a piece of equipment uses a larger breaker than the running amps but over double is not typical. For things with a high surge a slow trip breaker slightly over the need is far more common.
For your electrical usage you can not just add up the amp ratings of the breakers, because that will not even give you an estimate you can work with. If done properly the breaker is sized to match the gauge of the wire used, it has no bearing on what the equipment needs. On an easier scale, look at 12 ga copper wire, as long as the run is within usual limits as to length, it will get a 20A breaker, but maybe it only has a 5 or 6 A load on it. Read the tag on your equipment to get the running amps or watts, if the tag gives watts, just divide that by the volts for the amps.