Got my syrup tested for lead - 70ppb - how does this compare

[old fashioned]

I'm new to the forum but have made syrup for 35+ years. My profile name - old fashioned - says it all. We are buckets, spiles and flat plan. With all the discussion about pros and cons of different methods especially the question of lead from old buckets, I got our syrup tested. It came back 70ppb. The state of Ohio says syrup has to be <250ppb. With all the variables that affect lead I was wondering. If you have had your syrup tested what were your numbers and what is your method?

[grizzlym]

I had mine tested three years ago. It was 31 ppb. At that time I was using old buckets, spiles and a flat pan.

[ecolbeck]

This has probably been covered elsewhere, but....

The length of time of exposure to lead based surfaces and temperature are key variables in the amount of lead in syrup. The longer sap sits in the pan or buckets the more lead it will accumulate. This varies greatly over the course of the season so testing a representative sample is key to getting an accurate estimate of syrup lead content. This may mean taking small amounts of syrup from different batches and mixing them to get an average lead content for the season.

I would feel uncomfortable consuming syrup with lead in it and I would definitely not want to give it to my children. Even small amounts of lead can have an affect on the development of children. Is it worth replacing equipment that serve as a lead source in order to eliminate the problem?

[WESTMAPLES]

ive never had my syrup tested as i use all welded eqiupment. and on another note this fun fact.... this does not apply everywhere, but some people comsume lead everyday. because city/ town water supply in lots of areas still run thru lead and asbestos piping just to get to your house.... and even once inside your house old leaded brass fitting / 85 -15 lead bearing solder to join pipes . lead is a fact of everyday life for lots and most don`t even realize it.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Has anyone tested their sap right from the tree not using any containers that contain lead and had it tested. Isn't lead naturally accruing all around us?

[wiam]

Has anyone tested their sap right from the tree not using any containers that contain lead and had it tested. Isn't lead naturally accruing all around us?
According to proctor lead does not come from the tree.
https://agnr.osu.edu/sites/agnr/files/imce/pdfs/maplesyrup/KeepingLeadOutofMapleSyrup.pdf

[maple flats]

Mine was tested back about 2007. The results came back at 75-80ppb, I don't recall exactly. At that time I had 100 old galv. buckets and the batch they sampled from had one time sat in the buckets for 2 days because the flow was very slow. I also at that time had 2 galv. stock tanks that I used. You should be good. I think anything under 250 ppb is acceptable.

[Moser's Maple]

If I recall correctly the push for lead abatement came from some issues with proposition 65 in California. I believe under this law lead content has to be under 11ppb. So if you are wholesaling to a packer then you could run the risk of your syrup being rejected if you test over this amount. As for our operation we have had testing the last 4 years and we run under 3ppb respectively each year.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Is the conclusion that the lead is being introduced by the the sugar maker and that its not from ground water. Now I understand that the trees are not the culprit.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

There are lead musket balls from the civil war that were dug up and still same size and weight approx. from the day it was fired. So for the "Scientists" to say lead dissolves are BS.
Its like the EPA saying we have to do lead abatement at shooting ranges because it might leech back in to the ground.

Lead is syrup comes from the solder of old English tin pans and buckets.

[unc23win]

Got my syrup tested once by this lab through our maple association. It says they normally only report as low as 50ppb but upon specail request can go as low as 7ppb. http://www.endynelabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Maple-Syrup-Lead-Analysis-1.pdf

[prairietapper]

There are lead musket balls from the civil war that were dug up and still same size and weight approx. from the day it was fired. So for the "Scientists" to say lead dissolves are BS.
Its like the EPA saying we have to do lead abatement at shooting ranges because it might leech back in to the ground.

Lead is syrup comes from the solder of old English tin pans and buckets.
Soil PH would have a lot to do with, does lead leach into the soil or does it not. just as it has an impact water lines that are lead. or an acidic solution in a lead soldered pan. oxidized lead does not leach at the same rate as bright shiny lead does
While I am one of those people that generally looks at someone a bit askew when they say "the science is settled " I think there is no doubt that on this one it is . The less lead you consume the better.

[Russell Lampron]

I had mine tested years ago when I used old galvanized buckets and the result was well below the limit then. I have eliminated just about everything that contains lead in my operation to reduce that amount even further. At last count I found that I still have 8 brass valves that I need to replace and that's it. I know that all but one of those are new enough to be lead free but the tags are gone so I don't know for sure.

Some people say that the maple equipment manufacturers have invented this lead issue to sell new lead free equipment but it is actually the FDA. The maple industry has been trying to be proactive and policing itself so that we will be in compliance when new tougher regulations come along. I for one feel that it is a step in the right direction.

[Super Sapper]

The more acidic a liquid is the more lead it will dissolve. A neutral or basic solution will not dissolve metals(lead). It is the same as using vinegar to remove niter.

[ecolbeck]

The more acidic a liquid is the more lead it will dissolve. A neutral or basic solution will not dissolve metals(lead). It is the same as using vinegar to remove niter.

Slight correction: Lead is soluble in neutral or alkaline solutions just not to the extent that it is in acidic ones. Niter is soluble in neutral solutions because that's how it got into your pan in the first place. It just happens to be much more soluble in acidic solutions.


Curious: Does anybody actually believe that lead in syrup was an invented problem designed to convince producers to buy new equipment?

[ecolbeck]

There are lead musket balls from the civil war that were dug up and still same size and weight approx. from the day it was fired. So for the "Scientists" to say lead dissolves are BS.
Its like the EPA saying we have to do lead abatement at shooting ranges because it might leech back in to the ground.

Lead is syrup comes from the solder of old English tin pans and buckets.

Lemme see if I can understand this. If the water in sap comes into contact with lead in a bucket then the lead leaches into the sap. If groundwater comes into contact with lead from spent ammunition then nothing happens. Right?

[Haynes Forest Products]

Only the people that believe that the oil company's have a carburetor that they bought from the big 3 auto manufactures and put on a shelf because it will get you 100 MPG :lol:
Lead is a great thing in its place just not in food. Lead solder is easy to work with flows like melted butter when soldering.

[old fashioned]

I really appreciate all the response and discussion. Let me restate the original question - What are your test results and what is your method? Thanks

[Bucket Head]

Going back to the original question, Endyne tested mine 4 years ago and it was 42ppm- well below the high limit.

Back then over half my taps were buckets but last year was the first year I had no galv. buckets. I have not tested it since but I do have brass valves on the RO and my canner is a soldered unit. I am in agreement with the fact that many water supply lines in everyone's general area still have leaded components, and everyone would be surprised how much lead we consume unknowingly. It is much more that what is in your or your neighbors syrup. Another source for lead is the good old ground we walk on. We burned leaded gas in this country for decades. Where do you think that lead went?

Shortly after I had my test done I spoke to Bruce Bascom about the lead content. At that time he said his silo's normally come in between 40 and 60 on random checks. He said the lead issue was a self correcting problem as less and less "older" equipment was being used each year. So I'd imagine it's coming in a little less right now. But his is still well below the limit. And there are many producers out there with soldered pans and all and they are not near the limit either.

I am all for "unleaded" food, but I think the syrup lead issue has been pumped up a little more than it needed to be. I only know of one producer, here locally, that had a test come in high (but not over the limit) and it was because he was using an absolutely ancient cone filter tank that should have been in a museum and not in use! He stopped using it and was retested and he was fine.

So boil on.

[DrTimPerkins]

Lead is not normally found in any substantial quantity in maple sap. There can be a very small amount in ground water, but not normally very much. Trees exclude any lead in soil water during uptake. So there is essentially little or no lead in sap to be concentrated by processing into syrup. The vast majority of lead in syrup originates from lead-containing maple sap collection and syrup processing equipment. This is because sap is slightly acidic and will dissolve the lead wherever it occurs (not the case in water pipes or musket balls, which form lead-oxide over the lead and prevent it from being dissolved, and the liquid they contact is not acidic). These lead oxides don't build up much on evaporators and buckets because people clean them off before the season starts. Also, MOST lead in maple ends up precipitating out in the sugar sand/niter during the evaporation process, which is why filtering is so crucial in reducing the amount of lead in syrup. However some lead can remain in the dissolved form in syrup.

The issue is not new, it was recognized back in the early 1900s, during which time the levels were very high. At that time it was reduced a good deal. However standards changed, so that by the mid-late 1990s, lead in maple syrup was deemed "too high" again. Initially it was set at 500 ppb (250 ppb in VT), but some states have since dropped it further to 250 ppb. We did a lot of testing and research on the subject in the 1990s. Most syrup falls below action levels, but occasionally some syrup scan have rather high levels (many thousands of ppb). Sometimes just exposure of an open tank alongside a dusty road will result in elevated lead levels, but typically it is a combination of exposures, lead-spile, lead buckets, lead-soldered or galvanized tanks, brass pumps, lead-soldered evaporators, old milk cans or barrels. A little exposure all along the way will build up lead levels at each point of contact.

So a lot of industry research and education and problem solved...until the California Prop 65 issue came about about 5-6 yrs ago. Bulk packers entered into an agreement to reduce lead exposure in maple syrup further, which is why, if you sell to a packer that was a party to the agreement, you must agree to replace any lead-containing equipment (even if you test low in lead) on a time-table based upon your production size. Packers who are part of this agreement will not buy from you if you use lead-containing equipment. If you don't sell to them, these new rules don't apply to you, but the state/federal/provincial limits (250-500 ppb) do.

[argohauler]

My worst test was 2.0 ppm. Ontario's threshold was .5 ppm. It was early syrup all from my lines as I didn't have the buckets tapped yet. So my evaporator was the culprit because it was clean. It was stainless, but with lead solder.

So I got a new syrup pan first and then the boiling pan a couple years later, and I still couldn't pass, so all the tin and galvanized buckets went and galvanized tanks. Then it wasn't detectable anymore. It was a good thing, but it took me a few years to get back to full tapping ability with all the money I had to put out.

No I see Omafra must be thinking about reducing the limit to .25 ppm. The ontap newsletter I received this fall is going to go to the producers who scored higher than .25 and test them again and if they score above that they are going to make them get rid of that equipment.

[DrTimPerkins]

Ontario has been fairly aggressive all along in reducing lead levels in syrup. On the flip side, I think they had (at least for a period of time) some decent financial assistance to producers to replace lead-containing equipment also.

[bobbyjake]

Units are pretty critical in any discussion of contamination. This conversation began with parts per billion (ppb) and somehow ended with parts per million (ppm). 1 ppm is 1000 ppb. The action limit for lead in water is 0.015 ppm or 15 ppb. Syrup is not water, but as a frame of reference relative to consumption.

As Dr. Tim points out, in the 90's the lead craze was a hot and heavy topic in Vermont. Buckets were the primary culprit but not for the reason that you may think. Sure, buckets were generally older, rustier and had a greater amount of surface area contact/exposure per tap, but the real culprit was time.... sap tended to sit in them for days and days between gatherings. Operations that had buckets and gathered them frequently still had lower lead levels with all other factors being equal. Well cared for and managed equipment use wasn't as bad for lead as that which wasn't, but the primary variable of whether you could pass or fail a lead test was in filtering, as Dr. Tim also points out. A good filter press would decrease your final lead numbers drastically. Filter your syrup a second time during packaging (bring the syrup up to 200 degrees so it would start to form sugar sand again) and most would show up "non-detect".

This wasn't a hidden piece of information, however it wasn't exactly broadcasted from the rooftops either because it was counter-productive to the "goal" which was to eliminate the source(s). After all, why replace all of your sources when you could just buy a filter press and throw away the cones/felts? Probably the largest value that resulted from the lead studies was the (gradual) increase (which has now become pretty substantial) in stainless drums for final product storage, although the use of plastic drums and those disgusting epoxy-lined steel things certainly persists. I expected the epoxy-lined ones to be the next to fall away, but they are still hanging on. Three years of use and you can't open a drum without some epoxy flakes in it.

[CBOYER]

What do you think about the Beech-nut (Dole and Gerber) win in court about Proposition 65 ?

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=4b431f4f-1ba0-46ce-a67b-d2a50c6ff9c6

[argohauler]

Ontario has been fairly aggressive all along in reducing lead levels in syrup. On the flip side, I think they had (at least for a period of time) some decent financial assistance to producers to replace lead-containing equipment also.

Yes there was decent financial support assistance. Can't remember how much they would cover now, however I never found out about it till too late. They had used up their money and I went on a list. They found more funds, but they were for existing people already in the program.

The province of Ontario is measured in PPM and the threshold is .5 ppm

[DrTimPerkins]

Three years of use and you can't open a drum without some epoxy flakes in it.

Typically these are referred to as "one-way drums", meaning they are supposed to be filled with product, emptied, and then not used again. Doesn't seem to work out that way really often in maple for some reason.

[DrTimPerkins]

What do you think about the Beech-nut (Dole and Gerber) win in court about Proposition 65 ?

One never knows what the outcome will be when you go to court. The result might well have been that all maple syrup sold in California would be required to be clearly marked with a warning label. Dole and Gerber have very deep pockets compared to the maple industry. Could just as easily have gone the other way.

[BCPP]

Units are pretty critical in any discussion of contamination. This conversation began with parts per billion (ppb) and somehow ended with parts per million (ppm). 1 ppm is 1000 ppb. The action limit for lead in water is 0.015 ppm or 15 ppb.
Don't see what your issue is. No one used wrong units in this discussion. As long as we state ppm ot ppb beside the number!

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

One never knows what the outcome will be when you go to court. The result might well have been that all maple syrup sold in California would be required to be clearly marked with a warning label. Dole and Gerber have very deep pockets compared to the maple industry. Could just as easily have gone the other way.
you mean KOMMIEFORNIA Doc.