Ro tanks

[butler]

Where do most people leave there permeate and concentrate tanks ... in the heated area with the ro or outside?

[maple flats]

Mine is outside and it is plumbed so I can pull from it as I need. My tank is 1000 gal for a 250 RO. I close the tank valve and drain the line grom the tank to the sugarhouse when the temps will be below freezing.

[Russell Lampron]

Mine are in my woodshed. They are plumbed to drain completely so freeze ups are rare. I get the RO wash cycle done as soon as possible after I'm done concentrating so that I can pump the rinse water through before the pipes can freeze.

[wiam]

My permeate tanks are in with my RO. I don’t usually rinse at night. I start the wash and go to bed. So I like having them where they don’t freeze.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Shack space is tight and I store 5 permeate totes so there out side. May bulk sap tanks are also out side. The are all plumbed into the shack with heat tape and insulation wrapped around the pipes and valves. They have never frozen works great. My concentrate tank is in the shack and I plan on moving it outside to keep it cold for fresher concentrate. I find that allowing concentrate to heat up is bad for freshness.

[steve J]

At what temperature will permeate freeze ?

[mol1jb]

Permeate is pure water so 32*

[Russell Lampron]

At what temperature will permeate freeze ?

Permeate freezes at 32*F but the tank of permeate will be warm enough from concentrating so that you will have a couple of hours before things freeze up. Even when the temps are below freezing when I finish concentrating I'm able to run a wash cycle and do the rinse afterward. If I do the wash at night and wait until the next morning to run the rinse water through the pipes will be frozen.

[SeanD]

My permeate tanks are in with my RO. I don’t usually rinse at night. I start the wash and go to bed. So I like having them where they don’t freeze.

Do you leave the soap soaking in the membrane overnight? Recirculating or just sitting? I have only rinsed it out right after. Is it more effective to let it sit?

[Haynes Forest Products]

I wash mine and go to bed and let the soap sit in it over night. I also don't want to slam cold 40 degree permeate into the membrane that is at 110 degrees. I also don't play the game with different filters. I change them after I wash and rinse and then go with new filters...........................yea I know.

[wiam]

Do you leave the soap soaking in the membrane overnight? Recirculating or just sitting? I have only rinsed it out right after. Is it more effective to let it sit?

Yes. Soap sits over night. Some times I will check pH in wash tank in the morning and turn wash back on and let it heat up again before rinsing.

[Russell Lampron]

Yes. Soap sits over night. Some times I will check pH in wash tank in the morning and turn wash back on and let it heat up again before rinsing.

I do the same if I'm not trying to get the rinse water through it in freezing temps, sometimes it sits longer depending on my schedule.

[SeanD]

Ok, really good to know. Is it just for convenience or is it like the acid wash where the extra time breaks up more of the stuff. I have to do my end-of-year clean, so I might try letting it sit a day.

[SeanD]

I wash mine and go to bed and let the soap sit in it over night. I also don't want to slam cold 40 degree permeate into the membrane that is at 110 degrees. I also don't play the game with different filters. I change them after I wash and rinse and then go with new filters...........................yea I know.

I think I'm doing what you do. Is the filter game having a dedicated soap filter?

[DrTimPerkins]

We have a primary permeate tank (1,500 gal) in an upstairs bay and a secondary (3,000 gal) permeate tank on the main level. Both tanks are inside, but not in heated space. We also have another hot permeate tank -- gets filled with cold permeate, but heat loop through evaporator brings the temp up when we're boiling.

At the end of each day that we concentrate we do a soap wash. When the machine shuts down, we start the rinse cycle and walk away. The primary permeate tank drains to empty during the rinse.

The procedure in some areas (especially organic-certified Quebec producers) is to rinse after concentrating, then measure flow rate. If it has dropped a certain amount from the benchmark value, they can use RO soap, otherwise they can not.

[wiam]

Ok, really good to know. Is it just for convenience or is it like the acid wash where the extra time breaks up more of the stuff. I have to do my end-of-year clean, so I might try letting it sit a day.
Mostly convenience. But I figure it should help. I talked to Clate at MES and he said it shouldn’t hurt the membrane to sit in soap overnight.

[Russell Lampron]

Ok, really good to know. Is it just for convenience or is it like the acid wash where the extra time breaks up more of the stuff. I have to do my end-of-year clean, so I might try letting it sit a day.

It's mostly for convenience. I'm not sure if more stuff breaks up if it sits longer but I haven't noticed any negative effects from doing so.

[mellondome]

We have a primary permeate tank (1,500 gal) in an upstairs bay and a secondary (3,000 gal) permeate tank on the main level. Both tanks are inside, but not in heated space. We also have another hot permeate tank -- gets filled with cold permeate, but heat loop through evaporator brings the temp up when we're boiling.

At the end of each day that we concentrate we do a soap wash. When the machine shuts down, we start the rinse cycle and walk away. The primary permeate tank drains to empty during the rinse.

The procedure in some areas (especially organic-certified Quebec producers) is to rinse after concentrating, then measure flow rate. If it has dropped a certain amount from the benchmark value, they can use RO soap, otherwise they can not.What do you use the secondary and heated permeate for?