Making permeate for final cleaning and storage

[Big Stoney]

My last batch of syrup had an off taste. I threw out the remainder of the syrup that was in the evaporator. My taps do not seem to be running well, so I am thinking that they are drying up( they are on natural vacuum). I have since collected a couple hundred gallons of sap and hope to collect a little more. If I run it through the RO will the permeate be good to use for the final cleaning and storage of the RO? I do not have enough permeate in storage to do the final cleaning. Is it worth trying to boil the concentrate since the last batch was off taste? Do I use my well water that is run through a spin down filter for the final cleaning and storage? Thanks in advance for your help.

[Russell Lampron]

Running the sap that you are getting now through the RO will give you permeate that you can use. The cause of the off flavor stays in the concentrate. Try boiling some of the concentrate down to see if the off flavor is still there. If it makes good syrup boil the rest of it, if not run it down the drain.

[wnybassman]

I thought about doing that also with my last load of sap.

Will a couple hundred gallons of permeate in my indoor tank last until next spring? It stays cooler in there in the summer and generally doesn't freeze in the winter (which is why I put the tank there).

[maple flats]

Not a good idea to save permeate til next year. Even if your membranes pass no sugar when tested, there is still going to be a slight trace of undetectable sugar and over that time the sugar will ruin the permeate.
This is why while the instructions say have a tank for permeate 2x the hourly rating of your ro, I have a 1000 gal for my 250 RO.

[maple flats]

How is your well water? If hard, it might not be a good choice. Can you collect rain water and filter it well? Or maybe a friend on municipal water that comes from a reservoir, just let it set for 3 days, open to the atmosphere to get rid of the chlorine. That is what I do to start the season.

[Big Stoney]

Our well water seems pretty good. I have filtered out rust with the spin down filter.

[wnybassman]

How is your well water? If hard, it might not be a good choice. Can you collect rain water and filter it well? Or maybe a friend on municipal water that comes from a reservoir, just let it set for 3 days, open to the atmosphere to get rid of the chlorine. That is what I do to start the season.

Well water is good, but not very plentiful. This area known for low water table. Most my neighbors haul water all year, but I don't have to if sensible about water use.

I can get village water for 25¢ for 50 gallons down at the town building. Would airing it out through a normal size cage tank hole be enough?

18451

[maple flats]

Yes, as long as the tank is not filled up into the neck. Chlorine only evaporates off the surface, so leave it down far enough that the full length and width of the IBC is open to the air. Then figure a way to keep anything from bugs to critters or leaves from getting in while the chloring can get out. In my case I just pump it into my 1000 gal permeate tank and give it 4 days. My tank has a protected vent on the top, a SS domed cover which goes over a 3" opening, that cover has a solid top but is perforated all around the sides. Because it is only venting thru 3" on mine I give it 4 days instead of 3 to get the chlorine out.

[markcasper]

I thought about doing that also with my last load of sap.

Will a couple hundred gallons of permeate in my indoor tank last until next spring? It stays cooler in there in the summer and generally doesn't freeze in the winter (which is why I put the tank there).

Yes you can keep permeate til the next year. I have did it for several years and use it to flush my membrane at the start of the following season to get the preservative out. There are people that tell you that you can't do it, etc, etc, etc,. Well I do it and I see no ill effects. I do run a few minutes worth of both concentrate and permeate down the drain after initial startup at the beginning of the year after flushing with year old permeate. I do not wash the membrane until after the first concentration which allows fresh permeate. Keep the tank tightly sealed in the off season. I do have a tank warmer to keep it from freezing up too badly in the winter.

[markcasper]

Not a good idea to save permeate til next year. Even if your membranes pass no sugar when tested, there is still going to be a slight trace of undetectable sugar and over that time the sugar will ruin the permeate..

So tell me how it gets ruined? All you want is something soft (not hard water) to get the preservative out. The tank I kept all year was clear as a bell 3 weeks ago and I ran it through. My membrane is on its 6th year, have only had it professionally cleaned once, and its performing the same as the first year it was used. Just want to know why or how undetectable sugar in the permeate makes it unusable for use in getting the preservative out?

[wnybassman]

I thought about doing that also with my last load of sap.

Will a couple hundred gallons of permeate in my indoor tank last until next spring? It stays cooler in there in the summer and generally doesn't freeze in the winter (which is why I put the tank there).

Well, I kept about 150 gallons of permeate just fine all summer. Looks and smells as good as the day it was made. Problem is, it started to freeze the past day or so. Have a heater down there to thaw out and probably drain tomorrow. Might have to go the municipal water route.

[wnybassman]

If I do decide to go the town water route, what is the other chlorine-like chemical to stay away from? I remember reading it, but can't remember the name. Chlorine evaporates off, but this other chemical does not.