new to using a ro

[johnston's farm market]

how often during the season should a person be doing a soap wash and acid soak. This year finding a lot of sugar sand in the syrup ,does this affect the ro and maybe the need for acid soak Thanks

[Cedar Eater]

I have not used an RO yet, but I doubt the sugar sand affects membrane cycle time because it is unprecipitated (dissolved) mineral while it is in the sap and I suspect the biologicals have a much bigger impact on wash cycle. The minerals only become solid when they precipitate out as a result of high heat.

[wiam]

Minerals will build up in the membrane. That is what the acid was removes. I usualyl do an acid wash 2-3 times per season. Most days I do a soap wash when I finish concentrating.

[blissville maples]

Wash every day after concentrating. Acid wash if performance drops way off, by performance I mean permeate flow, should be 5-8gpm for single membrane, you will see it drip if plugged up by minerals or sugar.

[maple flats]

I do it differently. In most seasons only do a soap wash at the end of the season unless I get issues with the performance.
My method (it is not in any manual I know of) is mine alone. What I do is at the end of each day, I flush sugar from the membrane with a 5 minute cold permeate rinse. For that I adjust the flows so both permeate and concentrate are essentially equal. For that the concentrate flow goes into the head tank. Next I fill the wash tank with 110-113F water, I run both the concentrate and the permeate into the was tank, but for the permeate portion, the cold permeate from the membranes goes to the permeate tank and as the RO runs I keep adding 110-113F hot permeate to the wash tank as makeup to maintain level. Once the membranes are up to temperature, the permeate is sent to the wash tank and no more hot permeate is needed. (some RO's actually heat the wash water as they run, I need to use my tankless waterheater) I run this cycle for a minimum of 10 minutes but more often for 15-20 minutes. Then my final step is to run cold permeate thru with the permeate discharge sent back to the permeate tank and the concentrate flow is sent to drain. In all ofr these steps I keep the flow about equal.
After I had used this method for 3 seasons (in season 1 I did the soap wash with 2 acid washes during the season), then seasons 2,3 and 4 I did it this way. Then I sent my membranes to Lapierre for professional cleaning and testing. The report came back saying I had 101% performance (no idea how it was 101%) and 0 sugar passed. Since then I have done the same for 3 more seasons so far. My plan is to do it 2 more seasons and then send the membranes in again.
My only soap wash of the season is at the end of the season, when I do my method, then a soap wash and an acid wash. It works for me. But realize, it is not by the book and your RO may not do as well using my method. I take no responsibility if you try my method and get less than good results. One point is that my RO only runs at 270-275 psi and shuts off on high pressure at 300. One that runs much higher pressure my not work using my method.

[saphead]

Dave,
Where I help out a similar method is used.Plenty of hot condensate off the steam-away mixed with permeate and rinse,rinse,rinse. Works well on the 30 yr. old R.O. but sap is only brought up to 6% then off to the steam-away and up to around 9% before it hits the flue pan. You no longer have to remortgage your house to buy membranes like in the old days so after 6,7,8 yrs. and hundreds of thousands of gallon put through them...replace them and start the cycle over. Every sugaring operation is different so what works at one may not work for another.

[DrTimPerkins]

A soap (high pH, basically lye) wash is used to remove biological material. An acid (low pH) soak/wash is used to remove mineral material. Typically you would wash with soap after each use or less frequently if you do a good permeate rinse after each concentration cycle. You can check your permeate flow and compare that to typical flows (or better yet, do a benchmark) to know when it is time to rinse or wash. At the end of the season you definitely want to do a soap wash followed by a good permeate rinse, then store under conditions recommended by your equipment dealer (often in sodium metabisulfite/glycercin solution to prevent microbial growth).

The RO won't (shouldn't) affect the sugar sand, but many people do notice that sugar sand builds up faster when boiling concentrate. Remember that you have the same amount of minerals in the concentrate that you had in all the sap. So if you concentrate the sugar from 2 to 8 Brix in your RO, the concentrate has 4X the amount of sugar and also 4X the amount of minerals, so you will see sugar sand develop 4X faster (approximately), but you'll also be making syrup at 4X the rate.

Membranes don't like REALLY hot water, and most commercial machines have a high-temperature cutoff sensor/switch built into them. So check your machine specs and don't exceed the stated temperature limit. Otherwise your machine might just suddenly shut off mid-rinse, or if you don't have a temperature cut-off, you could permanently damage your membranes.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I have a CDL 600 expandable and I rinse as much as possible and every time I take off for 1 hr round trip sap collecting I rinse it. I do a soap wash every night. My masching starts with cold permeate and as it pumps thru the unit it builds heat from friction and pressure. It will shut down when it reaches the manufacture preset. I let it soak and cool down before I rinse and change filters. I don't like to slam cold water into the membrane doing a cold permeate wash right after cleaning so I let it sit over night.

I would follow the manufactures recommended procedures but there in French translated into English so its all Greek to me. :confused:

When I got mine used the membrane was only at 93% and it has improved every year and its now showing 120% flow rate.........they tried to explain it to me but that didn't work. They said keep it up what ever I'm doing.