CV spout question

[Dale Sparrow]

Has anybody installed new drops with new cv spouts on vacuum? Wondering if it would out perform a new drop and new conventional tap. Thanx.

[ennismaple]

My understanding is the CV's have little effect until the drops are more than 2 years old. Given there is little biofilm built up yet in the tubing and dropline the only benefit from the CV would be to prevent the small amount of sap that might get sucked back into the tree at freezeup.

We use non-cv stubby adapters for the 1st 2 years after we install new tubing.

[DrTimPerkins]

Has anybody installed new drops with new cv spouts on vacuum? Wondering if it would out perform a new drop and new conventional tap. Thanx.

Generally a new drop and spout are good for a year without using CV spouts/adapters. While you might get a small amount of additional sap with a CV on a new drop (as explained by Ennismaple), the economic benefit is too small to justify it in most years. The economics do work out for 2nd and subsequent years however.

[prairietapper]

I take it the CV should be replaced yearly?

[motowbrowne]

I take it the CV should be replaced yearly?

That's correct.

[prairietapper]

That's correct.
I confess I probably would have doubted it if told that by a salesman selling them. but after seeing side by side new 3/16 and last years 3/16 taps. I am totally convinced.

[Dale Sparrow]

Generally a new drop and spout are good for a year without using CV spouts/adapters. While you might get a small amount of additional sap with a CV on a new drop (as explained by Ennismaple), the economic benefit is too small to justify it in most years. The economics do work out for 2nd and subsequent years however. I have read most of the studies on CV spouts but none of them said anything about a CV on a new drop. What most of them did say was that nothing performed like a new spout and drop which is what I think I will stick with. A new spout and drop costs $.03 more than a CV spout (not including my labor). I think this would make the most sense for my small operation. The little bit of extra labor not a big deal for me as I only have 600 taps. I will sleep well knowing I am going to get the maximum yield possible every year. I do realize that for large operations with hired help this approach would not make financial sense. I do enjoy boasting my sap per tap numbers to other local sugar makers in my area. Last year I did nearly 20 gallons of sap per tap (20+inches of vacuum) which was far better than anybody else around me did. An operation just two miles up the road from me only did 4 gallons per tap last year on gravity with old taps and drops (he is putting in new taps and drops after hearing my sap per tap numbers). Nobody around me has warmed up to the idea that tap hole sanitation is where it's at if you want maximum yeilds. Maybe after a couple more years of watching me smoke their sap per tap numbers they will come around.

[wnybassman]

I think eventually you will get bacteria backing up into the tap hole from the line, not just the drop?

[DrTimPerkins]

A new spout and drop costs $.03 more than a CV spout (not including my labor). I think this would make the most sense for my small operation. The little bit of extra labor not a big deal for me as I only have 600 taps.

Most producers (at least those with high vacuum) also change out the tee when they change drops to avoid the problem of creating microleaks, so the cost of a drop comes out higher than the cost of CV installation. For most others, there is also the cost (time or money) of making the drop, bringing it out into the woods, installing it, removing the old drops from the woods, and then disposing of the drops. For the majority of producers, the cost to replace drops annually can't be justified.