Hard Maples - add Soft Maples?

[old fashioned]

I'm in Northwest Ohio. Been making syrup for 35 years. Buckets and spiles. 163 taps this year. I have always tapped Hard Maples. In reading the forums I see folks talking about Red Maples. I assume those are Soft Maples? What is the ratio sap to syrup? We have a bunch of soft maples. I tend to tap early to get the sweetest runs but with spiles the taps tend to dry up after about 4 weeks. After what I've been reading; I'm thinking I could pull my Hard Maple taps and tap Soft (Red) Maples for a second season?

[Galena]

In my experience, you would be wasting your time tapping reds now. Reds start to run a lot sooner than sugars, and thus stop and start to bud much sooner, in fact my reds are starting to bud now but the sugars are still closed up tight. Reds also tend to produce a lot less, and have a much lower sugar content. Though I do know some people who tap only reds, I no longer tap the few that I have. This is my first season on an all-sugars bush and my sugar content is definitely up and I feel that this is part of the reason why.

[BCPP]

Not sure what you are calling a soft maple. There are dozens of varieties of Maple trees. The sugar maple generally has the highest sugar content but close behind are black maples and red maples. These three typically have sugar content exceeding 3.5%. Silver maples come in around 2-3%. Down at the bottom of the pack are Manitoba maple or Box elder which has sugar content of 1-1.5%. I suspect these might be what you are calling soft maple because they have weak branches that are susceptible to heavy wind damage. You can still tap them and make syrup but the ratios are going to be approaching 80:1!

[northwood]

I have a mix of hard and soft Maple as well. (about 75% hard 25% soft) I usually tap mostly hard Maple but also a few soft because they're nice big ones and conveniently located. In my experience, the reds can produce well but will bud out 1-2 weeks before the hard Maples so you need to pull those taps first, and then your season is almost done. Sugar ratio is a bit lower with reds but not terrible. (aprx. 60:1)
What i've done in past years is pull the taps from my south facing Reds, clean the spiles, and tap a few trees on my north facing hill that is about 2 weeks behind. These fresh taps will run good until the warm weather hits.

[littleTapper]

Soft, typically red/silver, will have flower buds open rather early and I think a lot of people get confused between flower and leaf buds. I tap almost all silvers and many trees' flower buds have been open for a while - reds aren't far behind. Sap/Syrup is still perfect. Leafs buds take longer to swell/open but still will do so before sugar maples so you might not get quite as long of a season from them. Sugar content of my silvers this year is just under 2% overall and have pumped out 16 gallons per tap (starting in February) but in years past I've had up to 4% during some runs. IMHO, I think the soft maples make a better tasting syrup too; so having more variety in your sap could make for better syrup. It's worth a try. I tapped reds as a kid on our farm and man that was good stuff and sugar content was always near 2%.

tl;dr. Soft maples are worth it. Box elders too, but I keep that separate since it's quite different (and those leaf buds swell super early).

[GeneralStark]

With buckets you are not going to consistently get as much sap from red maples as you will from sugars. In my bucket days I tapped reds but most of them produced very little. On vacuum they will produce quite well and I have some reds that rival sugar maples in terms of quantity and sugar content of sap.

[old fashioned]

Thanks for all the feedback. Next year I am going to tap some Red Maples early and then do the Hard Maples when I normally do. Hopefully this helps me extend my season.

[Cedar Eater]

Thanks for all the feedback. Next year I am going to tap some Red Maples early and then do the Hard Maples when I normally do. Hopefully this helps me extend my season.

This sounds like a good plan, especially if you put the reds on tubing and get some form of vacuum on them. That has been a game changer for me because I have mostly reds.

[tcross]

where I am in Vermont, I don't see as much a difference between the reds and sugars as far as budding or sugar content. my reds probably bud a week MAX before my maples. they also produce just about as much sap. I'm not sure on sugar content but I have half and half and I average around 2% to 2.25%. my average tree is probably 12"-13" diameter so that could have something to do with it. I tap 40 trees down the road from me on buckets... those are all sugars and 30-40" in diameter and they produce sap like crazy and around 3%

[Plutoman15]

I only have Norway Maples to tap presently and see a huge huge difference depending on open trees versus woods. Open trees I see a consistent 2% or more and the woods started at 1% and is down to 0.5% now (which I stopped collecting now). All Norways.

I think asking ratio's between Maple types you have to make sure you are comparing the same conditions. My open Norways at 2% is higher than some sugar maples in the woods from what I read others reporting in Pennsylvania this year. But an open sugar Maple would probably blow away my open Norways in sugar and sap content when growing in the same conditions.

I am first year tapper so take my comments with a grain of maple sugar.

[maple flats]

For me last year was the exception, but I had to pull my Reds almost 3 weeks before the sugars were done, usually it is more like 7-12 days. Reds without vacuum don't usually do well. They seem to need vacuum to flow. A little diaphragm pump can make a big difference.
As for sugar content, on any maple it depends on the crown, a tree with a nice full crown makes more sugar, a tree with a small crown make less. Sugar maples can vary from about 1.4-1.6% on the low end up to and over 4%. A red can range from maybe 1.0% up to over 4% with a big crown. The leaves make the sugar. Thus yard trees and roadside trees most often have bigger crowns than unimproved stands in the woods and thus more sugar. In the woods, do manage the woods, thin out crowded stands but do not go for a monoculture, the healthiest woods will have about 75% maples and 25% assorted other species. When you cut, first remove dying or diseased trees, then thin to open up 1 side the give the crop tree room to expand and fill in that void. Then open another side and so on. If you open too much at once you get lots of wind damage, uprooted trees and sun scald among other issues.
Read up on this forum in this topic:
Sugarbush Management, Chainsaws and Firewood
It is not a sin to cut a maple tree, but to only remove dead trees can spell disaster if you want to improve your woods.

[Michael Greer]

Both types would mostly tend to run at the same time. Sugar Maples are the most reliable, but if a soft maple is near-by, tap it. Often Red Maples or Silver Maples have a comparable sugar content. and in certain conditions run quite well.While you're at it, if there's a Walnut or Butternut close and handy, tap them too. The sap is very sweet and adds a smooth texture to Maple syrup.

[Russell Lampron]

About 90% of my taps are Reds because that is what I have on my property. As others have said they need to be on vacuum to produce consistently. They also produce less sap than a sugar but not by much. The sugar content on woods trees isn't much lower than the Sugar Maples if at all.

It was also mentioned that they give the syrup a better flavor. I have many customers comment on that fact when they visit on Maple Weekend. Last season a local producer came around looking for syrup from other producers to do a taste test at his open house. He wanted some of my Golden syrup to add to the samples. There were many people walking away in disbelief. My syrup had more and better flavor than all of the darker syrups that were on the table. I tried it myself and had to agree because I thought he was full of crap. He was right, I would have gotten the blue ribbon if it was a contest.

I always see people posting about how they bud earlier and that they have to pull their taps. This is my 19th season and I still don't know what buddy syrup taste like. I don't shut down my vacuum until I run out of weather and everybody in the area is calling it a season too. I think that a lot of producers see the flowers and think that they are buds.

Tapping them with buckets is a hit or miss where trees thatare out in the open can produce as much as a Sugar Maple and trees that are just a few feet into the woods will produce little to no sap. They all run on vacuum! If I were the OP I would tap some of them and see how they run. If one will run good one season it will tend to run good every season. If they don't run well or not at all don't tap them again.