It's time to get the design finalized

[VT_K9]

My Father and I are building a new Sugarhouse this year. The current one is too small to handle the larger evaporator and we need to build an insulated RO room. We are moving from a 2x6 Leader WSE to a CDL Deluxe 3X10 oil fired evaporator (See I know how to spell it, my image was not corrected before saving).

We are still in the planning phase and will start dismantling our current buildings as soon as the season is done. We pretty much have the design I posted below in mind. We are looking for suggestions for drains and passing through the truss bays with the smoke stack and through the roof (I just found an old post which talked about stacking metal spaced 1" and also wrapping insulation around the stack with an outer piece added on).

There is going to be a concrete slab in the area where the large sap tank, evaporator room, and RO room down to the "-------" vertical line. The rest of the space in the open area will be gravel to store equipment. The walls are going to be 2x6 and 12' tall. We are planning scissor type trusses over the evaporator until the left (in the picture) side of the RO room. Then we will transition to an attic truss which will go about 22' (whichever truss is a good stopping point) into the shop area. Then we will transition back to a scissor truss to allow for equipment clearance and storage. We are discussing the need to go to a 6" floor vs a 4" floor (maybe 6" under the evaporator area and 4" everywhere else. We are going to insulate under the floor and use concrete footings and wall 4' below grade. We are also exploring drain options and are looking at the heavier plastic long drains on both sides and behind the evaporator. We feel we can get the water from the hood to cool enough before it hits the drain to be an issue. One thing I am keeping in mind here is the disease...expansion. I would like to make sure the drains are in a position so they can work for a larger (4x12 or so) evaporator. We are at 400 taps and moving to 1000-1200 for the time being and will likely be here for awhile. I don't see a larger evaporator at this time, but don't want to set limits. I am thinking the drains should be about 2-3' off either side of the evaporator.

To start we will have a holding tank for water in the RO room with a hot water heater and pressure tank. There is a water pipe buried which I hook to a hose spigot on my house in warmer weather. Otherwise we will haul water to keep the 100 or gallon tank full until we have enough permeate/hot water from the steam hood.

The counter top area will be stainless steel. The stove area is a thought in place of a propane burner to keep sap warm for filtering. The sink drains and water supply will have shut offs or designed so water/drain is in the RO room which will be heated.

We are open to ideas and suggestions. Pictures would be great. Thank you in advance.

Mike


18131

[Michael Greer]

Right off the top I'd worry that a 3x10 might be way too big for 800 taps, but maybe you've got more trees in mind. I put my floor drain right in the middle of the floor under the evaporator and pitched the floor a tiny bit. Water spilled or dripping anywhere in the room runs to that drain and it doesn't care what evaporator sits over it.

[maple flats]

I agree, I did 1320 taps on a 3x8 with my 250 GPH RO, plus I processed sap from others to the tune of up to 2000 more taps (gravity only) . I did use the RO frequently doing double pass, but my longest boil was only about 5 hrs, most were more like 2.5-3 hrs.
Unless you really think you will be expanding to a lot more in the next few years a 3x10 oil fired is too much. You need to realize that oil fired will give you considerably better GPH evaporation, but you still don't want to run your boils too short. If you grow to tax a 3x8, then get a better or bigger RO.
Just my opinion.

[VT_K9]

The evaporator size was up in the air at first. We are spending a lot of time with the 2x6 and we would rather spend it in the woods. We looked at 2.5' and 3' wide. We looked at 8' and 10' long. From reading here it was pretty clear to me the 3' evaporation rate seems to be a lot more than either in 2.5' widths. Then came the decision of 8' or 10'. We did not consider anything larger at this time. Our plans were to grow to 800 taps this year, but job changes and more than one job got in the way. We are well on the way to establishing the mainline and pump line for the area with 800 taps. That is a starting point with a plan to grow to 1,000 between this year and next. Now it is to finish the 800 and go to 1000. This area would allow us to tap nearly everything on the property with the current collection point. The final goal is going to be about 1000-1200 and pause for...for...for maybe a year. We are due to log the property in the next couple years and did not want to load the area with lines. There are enough hemlocks in the area we need a logger to get the area cleared for expansion. I have no idea what the future will bring and do not want to get locked in to not being able to expand. We are coming from a nice old fashion sugarhouse my Grandfather build in 1970's and now it has three buildings attached used in maple processing and two more with support equipment. I don't want to go back to a shanty town look. I also don't want upgrade equipment any time in the future...been there and done that for other equipment and it's not cheap.

Thanks,

Mike

[VT_K9]

Old sugarhouse and supporting sheds April 2018
20236

Using forks to remove the roof systems and save some of the lumber for repurposing.
20237

Used insulating forms for the Alaskan Slab.
20238

Conduit and pipes were run under the stone giving access for wiring, fuel line, water, and drains. Should have added a couple for additional wiring to save from having to route through the walls and trusses. Mid September 2018
20239

Concrete in place, just a week before cold weather set in for the year (earlier than normal). The larger puddle on the right is a result of the primary evaporator area drain still covered with duct tape. October 2018
20240

[n8hutch]

That 3x10 will be fine, were not talking about a souped up rig with a steam away and reverse fired and all the goodies, it's a basic oil fired rig, probably boil about 110-125 gph. You might have to hold sap a day on slow runs but slow runs are generally because of cooler weather so you'll be fine. I ran 300 taps on my 2.5x8 for a few years and it worked great I'd boil 6-700 gallons every few days instead of boiling 5 hrs a day on a 2x6 every day.
You might make some Darker Syrup but That's no big deal Dark is where it's at unless you're trying to make candy. Have fun with your new rig.

[VT_K9]

Walls went up in sections using the excavator to lift and set them in place.
20247

We had the trusses placed on the top plates and moved them in place with additional help and a lift from inside the building.
20246

20243

We placed 5/8" Advantec sheathing on the trusses and covered that with Grace Membrane. We'll place the metal roofing on top this fall.
20244

We had the 3x10 CDL evaporator moved from my wife's garage bay to the sugarhouse by flatbed wrecker. Worked out great.
20245

[VT_K9]

L to R: Raw sap tank, permeate, and evaporator.
20248

CDL and Pick and Shovel on scene for first fire and tune up. January 2019
20249

During the design phase we debated 10' vs 12' walls. 12' gave us better storage over head for any future upgrades. We were going to just do the RO room (on the left) and then decided to run I-joists the width of the building to have more storage overhead.
20250

View of the tanks and evaporator area.
20251

View of the garage area.
20252

[VT_K9]

This is the feed tank. Last year we pumped from the sap tank to it. Next year the RO will push concentrate to it.
20253

The feed tank supplies the evaporator through 1 1/2 sch 40 pipe.
20254

We put two unions into the feed line so we can lift the hood for cleaning.
20255

First fire and success. Everything went pretty smooth. Boiled raw sap faster than our 250 gph RO with 2x6 evaporator.
20256

Kitchen area. Plans are to use SS sheets on the counter top and replace the table with a SS table. Still finalizing some placement of kitchen items.
20257

[VT_K9]

We'll plumb a sink in here. We are looking for a 7' sink with dual washboards. We picked this one up at the right price, but the washboard will make the difference.
20258

This the view of the "wall" separating the garage from the processing areas. We have doors in place and handrail up. Just need to finish the wall to the ceiling contour. We can place items onto the platform with forks using the tractor. We have shelving and several rodent proof container for storage in the room.
20259


Still need to install metal roofing, after finishing the eaves and building the gable overhang. Finish the sliding garage doors (should be this week). Put siding on (still need to cut the logs for the sawmill). Run the vacuum and pump lines to the new sap shack (about 200' will be elevated 16 or so feet in the air using telephone poles). Still have some grading to do around the exterior of the building and finish the driveway for easier plowing this winter.

Looking forward to this year.

[VTnewguy]

Mike, it looks amazing! You must be pretty pumped for the upcoming season. I can only imagine the cost of getting this off the ground.

[Pdiamond]

Mike that looks like a really neat operation you are building. Do you really have snow on the ground already???

[DrTimPerkins]

Nice looking place Mike. Well thought out. Best of luck in the upcoming season.

[maple flats]

I think the dates showing on your pictures must be misleading or you work at super speed and during a snow storm. The pics show a time span of about 3 hrs, in that time you got an amazing amount of construction done.

[VT_K9]

Nate,

This past season we held the sap the same number of days we did with the RO AND 2x6. It was not worth the setup and clean up for 300 or so gallons with the RO.

This next year I hope we have the extra 6-800 taps so we can run the RO and put the system to work. Then as time goes one we can expand or tighten up the woods we have now as we update the lines.

Thanks,

Mike

[VT_K9]

The pics were taken over a period of months. We started emptying the old sugarhouse at the end of 2018 in hopes to tear it down and build a usable building for 2019. My Dad is retired and I work three jobs (1 full-time and 2 part-time). Its too early for snow here and to fast for even the roof structure to be put up in hours. I had to find the time to sit down with all the updates and build a photo progression.

The planning was hours over many days throughout several months for almost as many years. The nice part about taking a little longer allowed for more thorough research at several points. Such as the insulating forms, the second level for storage, and conduit to the evaporator for the oil and electric. Then the 4” schedule 40 with wide sweep elbow running from the RO room to about 15’ away from the building for a future water line if we add a well.

I wish there was one or two additional conduits for easier electrical runs (easier and shorter). I wish the gable over hangs were built into the truss design (didn’t think about or see it until after the trusses were up). Otherwise like everyone else and everyone warns... just a little larger. Not much, just about 4 feet (for easy construction math) larger in both directions (definitely longer in the garage area).

Otherwise it is large enough for most any reasonable expansion a one-two person operation would enjoy running. It is now large enough to pay the taxes, annual cost of sugaring, and payback/put away for the larger equipment.

A lot is owed to the other members here and Sugarmakers locally for the good ideas.

Mike

[maple flats]

While my sugarhouse is small and nothing fancy, I did think to make trusses with a 3' overhang. That area under the overhang on one side is my final staging area for firewood to finish drying, I'd need to do some excavating and remove 2 trees to use the other side for wood storage. Just 1 side 24' long, stacked an average of 6-6.5' high, except in front of the 2 windows works well. The sugarhouse is my avitar.

[VT_K9]

Maple Flats your sugarhouse looks nice. Our old one was of very traditional design with wood storage on either side under the eaves. We knocked those walls out years ago to get more room.

We took down two maples to make room for the new sugarhouse. One was almost at the end of it's life and the other was not very large so we did not have a huge loss. We took the bottom 18' to the saw mill to make tap hole lumber. The new one has 2' over hang to help keep water splash away from the lower portion of the exterior wall. We are planning on 18" to 24" on the gable ends. I think if we stayed with wood we would store the wood on pallets and bring it in with pallet forks.