Should I build an RO

[hfmanifold]

Hello All--

Currently i have about 40 taps and plan to have 75-125 next year. I boil on a 2x4 with AUF and get somewhere around 10-12 gph when really going and really need somewhere around 70 gallons of sap to make it worth firing up. Currently i collect around 35-45 gallons a sap when it is running. Most my sap this year has been between 1.5 - 2%. I have been looking alot at homemade RO alot to bring it up to 7-8%

My question is with my set up is it worth it? if i take out 50-75% of the water before i boil i will be waiting even longer to fire up and have a better chance of sap spoiling. So basicly what is the tap count threshold that would make a RO system worth it

Thanks

[ronintank]

This is my first year with an ro and i could not even think of going back to not having one.
I work 45 to 50 hours a week at my job and do the syrup thing on weekends and evenings when the sap is on a big run.
How much is your time worth?
remember is't not just the time boiling is is also the time spent cutting wood to feed the beast.
Every gallon you ro off you don't have to boil off.
Big savings on the wood pile this year.
I can do in one day what would have taken me 3 days before the ro.

[Jolly Acres Farm]

Hello
Sounds we have similar set ups. Im running a Mason 2x4 XL with Auf what are you running? Im getting around 11-14 gph with my set up. Ive boiled daily with as little as 35 gallons of sap. Its not ideal because by the time you really get it going it's time to shut it down, but I dont like sap to sit around.
Im going to build a R.O. as well, just in the time and fuel savings alone will pay for it. Plus if your like the most of us on here, if I can find a way to boil sap fast then I can tap a few more trees for more sap.....

[Jolly Acres Farm]

This is my first year with an ro and i could not even think of going back to not having one.
I work 45 to 50 hours a week at my job and do the syrup thing on weekends and evenings when the sap is on a big run.
How much is your time worth?
remember is't not just the time boiling is is also the time spent cutting wood to feed the beast.
Every gallon you ro off you don't have to boil off.
Big savings on the wood pile this year.
I can do in one day what would have taken me 3 days before the ro.

Id be interested in the type of R.O. setup you have. Sounds like we have similar sized operations. Would you be interested in sharing your build details and results?

[Sugarmaker]

Hello All--

Currently i have about 40 taps and plan to have 75-125 next year. I boil on a 2x4 with AUF and get somewhere around 10-12 gph when really going and really need somewhere around 70 gallons of sap to make it worth firing up. Currently i collect around 35-45 gallons a sap when it is running. Most my sap this year has been between 1.5 - 2%. I have been looking alot at homemade RO alot to bring it up to 7-8%

My question is with my set up is it worth it? if i take out 50-75% of the water before i boil i will be waiting even longer to fire up and have a better chance of sap spoiling. So basicly what is the tap count threshold that would make a RO system worth it

Thanks

Good question that you will have to answer. I think you will know when you need one.
Do you have enough time to boil all the raw sap you have? If no then you might need a R.O.
Do you want a machine that will save you time boiling and also save fuel? If yes then you might want a R.O.
Do you want to tap more trees and not buy a bigger evaporator? If yes then a R.O. may be the ticket.
Do you want to add vacuum to your sap gathering system therefor possibly doubling your sap output? If yes then you might want a R.O.

Some folks like to build things too and take on these home built R.O. projects in the off season.

Personally I don't have one. I believe its about all of the thing above being in balance, or 'right' sized. My tap count is low and my evaporator is sized to boil a really good run in 6 hours. I still like to cut and burn wood, and I am retired for a day job, so I have more play time. I dont really plan to grow much. more than 50% of the runs i brought in this year were small enough that I did not need a R.O.

The R.O is now the real work horse of the industry and there are some nice small units that might fit the bill for your operation.
Good luck.
Regards,
Chris

[ronintank]

Id be interested in the type of R.O. setup you have. Sounds like we have similar sized operations. Would you be interested in sharing your build details and results?
18057
Hand cart tcs store 40 bucks
https://www.mapleexperts.com/supplies/mes-4-inch-membranes 235 with shipping
https://www.amazon.com
RO Membrane Housing 304 SS Stainless Steel Pressure Vessel 4"x40" 96.49
https://www.ebay.com
ebay Shallow-Well-Jet-Pump-w-Pressure-Switch-3-4HP-14GPM-Stainless- Steel-115-230V feed pump 109.95
https://www.ebay.com
ebay Carbonator-Procon-Pump-Motor-3-4-hp-HZ-60-50-Volts-100-120-200-240 procon pump motor for direct drive 188.00
https://www.amazon.com
12 pack filters B01LXP6I1K 66.99
https://www.amazon.com
Pentek 150237 #10 Big Blue Filter Housing, 1" Female NPT Inlet/Outlet 25.77
https://www.amazon.com
Pentek 150296 SW-3 Wrench for #10 Big Blue Housings 4.70
https://www.amazon.com
Housing Bracket for Big blue 10" and 20" filter housings 9.10
https://www.amazon.com
BQLZR 17 x 3.2cm LZM-15T 0.2-2.0GPM 1-7 LPM Panel Type Flow Meter Flowmeter for Water Liquid Measurement With Adjustable Knob 27.01
https://www.amazon.com
BQLZR 17 x 3.2cm LZM-15T 0.1-1GPM/0.5-4LPM Panel Type Flow Meter Flowmeter for Water Liquid Measurement With Adjustable Knob 27.01

https://www.amazon.com
Winters PFQ Series Stainless Steel 304 Single Scale Liquid Filled Pressure Gauge with Brass Internals, 0-300 psi, 2-1/2" Dial Display, +/-1.5% Accuracy, 1/4" NPT Bottom Mount 16.52
https://www.amazon.com
2 required Winters PFQ Series Stainless Steel 304 Single Scale Liquid Filled Pressure Gauge with Brass Internals, 0-100 psi, 2-1/2" Dial Display, +/-1.5% Accuracy, 1/4" NPT Center Back Mount 27.25
https://www.amazon.com
Duda Energy HPpvc075-025ft 25' x 3/4" ID High Pressure Braided Clear Flexible PVC Tubing Heavy Duty UV Chemical Resistant Vinyl Hose Water Oil 35.87
https://www.amazon.com
Duda Energy HPpvc050-100ft 100' x 1/2" ID High Pressure Braided Clear Flexible PVC Tubing Heavy Duty UV Chemical Resistant Vinyl Hose Water Oil 53.41
https://www.amazon.com
HittecH Needle Valve Female Thread 304 Stainless Steel Flow Control Shut Off 915 PSI 1/2"/1/4"/1/8"/3/8" BSP FxF NPT (1/2'') 11.31

Procon V-Band Clamp - 1113 × 1 $2.00


Procon Bronze Coupler - 1143 × 1 $5.00


Series 4 Procon Pump - enter your model # × 1
1+240 gph 240 psi $130.00

Subtotal $137.00
Shipping $0.00
Total $137.00 USD


https://www.supplyhouse.com
this is where I ordered all my fittings got a great deal order was about 109 bucks free ship
18058
My results are my evap rate is 15 gph. i can set the ro to run just a little bit faster then this and with a by-pass loop will turn 1% sap into 6% . i have a 13 gallon feed pan that preheats the concentrate before running into my syrup pan.

[ecolbeck]

My situation is similar to the OP’s and others who have chimed in (day job/family/50 taps/18x48 w/AUF). I bought an RO bucket this year and it has saved me quite a bit of time and fuel. I run a single pass through it simultaneously to boiling. ROs require their own care so that should be factored in to the time aspect. As with the rest of this hobby there is no real way for me to justify the cost but it certainly has allowed me to process some big runs relatively quickly. As with everything speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?

[Jolly Acres Farm]

18057
Hand cart tcs store 40 bucks
https://www.mapleexperts.com/supplies/mes-4-inch-membranes 235 with shipping
https://www.amazon.com
RO Membrane Housing 304 SS Stainless Steel Pressure Vessel 4"x40" 96.49
https://www.ebay.com
ebay Shallow-Well-Jet-Pump-w-Pressure-Switch-3-4HP-14GPM-Stainless- Steel-115-230V feed pump 109.95
https://www.ebay.com
ebay Carbonator-Procon-Pump-Motor-3-4-hp-HZ-60-50-Volts-100-120-200-240 procon pump motor for direct drive 188.00
https://www.amazon.com
12 pack filters B01LXP6I1K 66.99
https://www.amazon.com
Pentek 150237 #10 Big Blue Filter Housing, 1" Female NPT Inlet/Outlet 25.77
https://www.amazon.com
Pentek 150296 SW-3 Wrench for #10 Big Blue Housings 4.70
https://www.amazon.com
Housing Bracket for Big blue 10" and 20" filter housings 9.10
https://www.amazon.com
BQLZR 17 x 3.2cm LZM-15T 0.2-2.0GPM 1-7 LPM Panel Type Flow Meter Flowmeter for Water Liquid Measurement With Adjustable Knob 27.01
https://www.amazon.com
BQLZR 17 x 3.2cm LZM-15T 0.1-1GPM/0.5-4LPM Panel Type Flow Meter Flowmeter for Water Liquid Measurement With Adjustable Knob 27.01

https://www.amazon.com
Winters PFQ Series Stainless Steel 304 Single Scale Liquid Filled Pressure Gauge with Brass Internals, 0-300 psi, 2-1/2" Dial Display, +/-1.5% Accuracy, 1/4" NPT Bottom Mount 16.52
https://www.amazon.com
2 required Winters PFQ Series Stainless Steel 304 Single Scale Liquid Filled Pressure Gauge with Brass Internals, 0-100 psi, 2-1/2" Dial Display, +/-1.5% Accuracy, 1/4" NPT Center Back Mount 27.25
https://www.amazon.com
Duda Energy HPpvc075-025ft 25' x 3/4" ID High Pressure Braided Clear Flexible PVC Tubing Heavy Duty UV Chemical Resistant Vinyl Hose Water Oil 35.87
https://www.amazon.com
Duda Energy HPpvc050-100ft 100' x 1/2" ID High Pressure Braided Clear Flexible PVC Tubing Heavy Duty UV Chemical Resistant Vinyl Hose Water Oil 53.41
https://www.amazon.com
HittecH Needle Valve Female Thread 304 Stainless Steel Flow Control Shut Off 915 PSI 1/2"/1/4"/1/8"/3/8" BSP FxF NPT (1/2'') 11.31

Procon V-Band Clamp - 1113 × 1 $2.00


Procon Bronze Coupler - 1143 × 1 $5.00


Series 4 Procon Pump - enter your model # × 1
1+240 gph 240 psi $130.00

Subtotal $137.00
Shipping $0.00
Total $137.00 USD


https://www.supplyhouse.com
this is where I ordered all my fittings got a great deal order was about 109 bucks free ship
18058
My results are my evap rate is 15 gph. i can set the ro to run just a little bit faster then this and with a by-pass loop will turn 1% sap into 6% . i have a 13 gallon feed pan that preheats the concentrate before running into my syrup pan.

Thank you for sharing this, great looking rig. Sounds like a great set up and is doing about what I'm looking to do. 1.5% sap to around 5-6%at 15 gph or so.

[Jolly Acres Farm]

My situation is similar to the OP’s and others who have chimed in (day job/family/50 taps/18x48 w/AUF). I bought an RO bucket this year and it has saved me quite a bit of time and fuel. I run a single pass through it simultaneously to boiling. ROs require their own care so that should be factored in to the time aspect. As with the rest of this hobby there is no real way for me to justify the cost but it certainly has allowed me to process some big runs relatively quickly. As with everything speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?

Personally I like to run at mach2 with my hair on fire. My wife on the other hand likes to stand on the break.

[Russell Lampron]

When I had to make that decision my options were:

1; Rebuild sugar house and buy a bigger evaporator. Cost of sugar house rebuild unknown, 3x10 evaporator $10,000.
2; Buy an RO and add an RO room to the sugar house. New RO $5,200, RO room, wiring and heatr $500.
3; Do nothing. The least expensive option but not what I wanted to do when I have a lot of red maples in my woods that needed to be tapped.

I close the RO which turned out to be the best thing that I ever did for my operation. It allowed me to add more taps, make more syrup and get to bed at a reasonable hour. I work a full time job so boiling all day and night wasn't an option.

I say build the RO, add more taps and make more syrup in less time using less wood.

[wnybassman]

I have only used my new RO twice and am amazed at the time it has already saved. In the two times I used it I have saved an estimated 14 hours in total processing time between ROing and boiling for 315 gallons of sap. That amount of sap would normally take 22.5 hours of boiling at an average rate of 14 gph from lighting the match to shut down. The time it took to boil the concentrate after ROing was 5.5 hours. 17 hours saved in actual boiling time. That is a ton of wood saved and a lot of sleep gained.

You will find it will be worth firing it up with way less than 70 gallons if it is concentrate. Sounds like you will be tripling tap count for next year. I have no problem firing my rig up with 20-30 gallons and have even fired it up with 10-15 gallons if the sweet has been sitting for a period of time without any major runs. I will still probably continue to do that if runs are not big enough to push through the RO

I had planned on building an RO this coming off season, but I got impatient with the abundance of low sugar sap this season so far and went ahead and bought one.

[bcarpenter]

Absolutely! The homemade RO I built using plans on Mapletrader was the best thing i ever did. Second best thing was the shurflo hobby vac setups.

For a hobbyist like me, with a day job it helps to keep up.

Bill

[Greenthumb]

Build it and they will come. Or is it build it and the sap will run.

[Russell Lampron]

Build it and they will come. Or is it build it and the sap will run.

The sap may not run. The year that I got my RO and vacuum the season started in mid March and lasted 2 weeks. The vacuum has been a season saver every year since 2005 and the RO has been the freedom machine that lets me get other things done while it's taking the water out of the sap.

[wnybassman]

The sap may not run. The year that I got my RO and vacuum the season started in mid March and lasted 2 weeks. The vacuum has been a season saver every year since 2005 and the RO has been the freedom machine that lets me get other things done while it's taking the water out of the sap.


Freedom Machine............I like it!!

[hfmanifold]

Thank you all for the great responses. I think next year will definitely be time to get one and free up some time!

Thanks

[hfmanifold]

Another quick question. Does the shelf life of the RO concentrate change compared to sap? Didnt know with the higher sugar content if it would spoil faster

Thanks

[Clinkis]

ROing Drastically reduces it shelf life. RO’s not only concentrates sugar they concentrates bacteria and also warms the sap. A perfect recipe for rampant microorganism growth. Concentrate needs to be boiled within hours unless you have a way to cool it down like a working milk tank.

[hfmanifold]

Thanks, that's what i figured but just wanted to make sure i was thinking correctly

[Far Afield farmer]

I am about to buy a 4 x40 ss clamp style RO membrane housing. Prices for the housings vary widely by mfgr and supplier, with eBay the cheapest. Are they different or, as I suspect they all come from the same plant in China? This may be important if O-rings, end caps or clamp need replacing. Anyone with experience here?

Far Afield Farmer

[Dennis H.]

It seems like everyone has given you good info on how to decide if an RO should/when be gotten. Now to the question should you build it?

I built my own for 2 reasons. first I love building things. Second, there was not any thing in the size I was looking for that for the price I was willing to pay.

Now if I had to make the choice again it would be a little tougher, Leader now has 2 small RO's and compared to what it cost me to build my own RO I think I would have gotten one of those.

You will have to weight out the options that are put in front of you and decide what direction you wish to go.

[BKnauss]

I'm interested in your RO build do you have any pictures of it after the plumbing was done and is there anything you would change after running it for a couple seasons

[Kamina]

This is my first year with an ro and i could not even think of going back to not having one.
I work 45 to 50 hours a week at my job and do the syrup thing on weekends and evenings when the sap is on a big run.
How much is your time worth?
remember is't not just the time boiling is is also the time spent cutting wood to feed the beast.
Every gallon you ro off you don't have to boil off.
Big savings on the wood pile this year.
I can do in one day what would have taken me 3 days before the ro.

This comment alone sold me. I will be purchasing one soon.