Start next season with 5/17 spile in Jan/Feb and move to 6/17 spile in March?

[Ntatar]

I tapped our neighborhood trees in Jan and many of them have slowed down dramatically the last 3 weeks. Things were also getting cloudy so we cleaned buckets and spiles, started freezing sap, drilled holes 1/4 deeper (about 2" now) and we're getting a little more of a run from the reamed tap holes compared to those that I didn't touch with a drill bit.
Thoughts on starting next season with 5/17 spile for Jan/Feb and then March 1 moving up to 6/17 with the same holes? From what I've read it seems like this could extend my run with minimal investment. We're only talking about 25 trees so minimal effort too. Thoughts or feedback?

[rchase]

I have never heard of a 5/17 spout or 6/17.

[motowbrowne]

I might not have this exactly right, but basically what happens is that the tree senses bacterial contamination in the tap hole and behind to compartmentalize the wound (stop sending sap there). By reaming the hole to a larger size you might gain a little flow but in my experience it won't last for long.

A better option in my opinion would be waiting until the prime moment to tap. Your holes will be fresh for the best part of the year and you will get the best sap flow.

The other thing you could consider depending on your layout would be a small vacuum setup. With the small diaphragm pumps available and 3/16 tubing a guy can afford to run vacuum on a small setup like that. You're probably talking $100 for the pump, fittings and a screen. Another hundred for tubing and taps. So $4/tap for 25 taps.

[Cedar Eater]

I'm going to assume that you mean 5/16" and 7/16" spiles because those are common sizes. Most tappers have gone to 5/16" from the old standard of 7/16" to minimize damage to the tree, so I think it's a bad idea to ream up to that size. There is the possibility of going from 1/4" to 5/16", but I think that either way, you will only be getting a slight improvement from reaming. This is probably better addressed by Dr. Tim Perkins.

[Moser's Maple]

Personally I’d just tap the trees at the appropriate time and not try to tap when the vacuum tubing guys do, but instead study the weather patterns and keep an eye on the trending weather.

[sirsapsalot]

Good question rtatar. I'm following...........

[FDA]

Personally I’d just tap the trees at the appropriate time and not try to tap when the vacuum tubing guys do, but instead study the weather patterns and keep an eye on the trending weather.

I agree. Tap in March and use 3 or 4- 7/16 taps per tree and you will collect all you want in a couple weeks.

[Moser's Maple]

I agree. Tap in March and use 3 or 4- 7/16 taps per tree and you will collect all you want in a couple weeks.
That’s not exactly what I meant.

[Ntatar]

sorry about the typo! Yes 5/16 and 7/16 :emb:
I'm just west of Boston and decided to tap in January because the weather was good and we enjoyed a nice early sap run. Based on what I was reading, we were better off starting early because we wouldn't be able to catch up if we waited until March - even if the wether was really good at the end of the season.

[mol1jb]

I might not have this exactly right, but basically what happens is that the tree senses bacterial contamination in the tap hole and behind to compartmentalize the wound (stop sending sap there). By reaming the hole to a larger size you might gain a little flow but in my experience it won't last for long.

A better option in my opinion would be waiting until the prime moment to tap. Your holes will be fresh for the best part of the year and you will get the best sap flow.

The other thing you could consider depending on your layout would be a small vacuum setup. With the small diaphragm pumps available and 3/16 tubing a guy can afford to run vacuum on a small setup like that. You're probably talking $100 for the pump, fittings and a screen. Another hundred for tubing and taps. So $4/tap for 25 taps.

I gotta agree here with the tubing recommendation. Even with no vac a tubing network usually lengthens your season because the taps are more protected. This year we tapped the last week in Jan and are still flowing well at 6 weeks.

[Ntatar]

Trees are way to spaced out around the neighborhood... neighborhood was developed back in the late 60s/early 70s and the town gave each homeowner two sugar maple trees for their front yard. basically I've got a neighborhood littered with 40 to 50-year-old sugar maple trees and a maze of driveways and sidewalks to navigate.

[Cedar Eater]

Next year, you might want to consider saving some trees for later tapping. Early runs are nice, but well, you're seeing what can happen. Trees tapped for buckets and bags can be finicky. Spouts with droptubes are better, but they don't compare to tubing runs.

[maple flats]

Tubing doesn't have to go from tree to tree. You could put 1 or 2 5/16 taps in a tree (only 2 if the tree is over 18" diameter) and run tubing to a bucket or other container on the ground. That will give you more time before the hole dries up than a traditional bucket or bag method.

[DrTimPerkins]

A better option in my opinion would be waiting until the prime moment to tap. Your holes will be fresh for the best part of the year and you will get the best sap flow.

The other thing you could consider depending on your layout would be a small vacuum setup.

This is very GOOD ADVICE. If you are tapping on gravity, wait until the appropriate time to tap....which is not likely to be in January.

[Ntatar]

Tubing doesn't have to go from tree to tree. You could put 1 or 2 5/16 taps in a tree (only 2 if the tree is over 18" diameter) and run tubing to a bucket or other container on the ground. That will give you more time before the hole dries up than a traditional bucket or bag method.

I'll definitely try this!

[Ntatar]

What about dividing my neighborhood up into two sections. I tap half the trees in January and then I move those taps to the second section of the neighborhood in late February or March 1. No new investments, just moving the taps around.
Back to tubing and gravity. You're saying I'll get a better draw from the tree if I run tubbing from a single tap down to a bucket on the ground then if I were to just hang the bucket on a hook?

[Cedar Eater]

Dividing your tapping into two groups is one way to make sure that you won't miss out on early tapping, but it will likely result in a somewhat lower overall yield, because the January taps will almost never make it to the end of the season when some of the best runs come.

And yes, spiles with droptubes down to buckets will flow at least as long as spouts that drain into hanging buckets or bags but usually longer. The tubing causes it to take longer for the tapholes to start healing. This might work even better with 3/16" droptubes because you might get a little natural vacuum and less air will enter through the tube.

[Ntatar]

This season I started in mid Jan when the weather forecast for our area (just west of Boston) showed a string of days in the low 40s. This was just after a very very cold December. Taps ran strong till mid Feb, about 5 weeks total. Would y'all suggest waiting till mid Feb? My fear if we wait till march 1 it will get warm and then its done in the blink of an eye - especially if we got 2 warm weeks in a row (30s at night, 50s during the day).

[buckeye gold]

Back to tubing and gravity. You're saying I'll get a better draw from the tree if I run tubbing from a single tap down to a bucket on the ground then if I were to just hang the bucket on a hook?

Yes you will. I hung bags along with buckets with tubes for years and the bucket tube combo always out produced the bags.

[Clinkis]

This season I started in mid Jan when the weather forecast for our area (just west of Boston) showed a string of days in the low 40s. This was just after a very very cold December. Taps ran strong till mid Feb, about 5 weeks total. Would y'all suggest waiting till mid Feb? My fear if we wait till march 1 it will get warm and then its done in the blink of an eye - especially if we got 2 warm weeks in a row (30s at night, 50s during the day).

With the crazy and unpredictable weather in the world these days it's almost impossible to predict when to tap based on the calendar. The last 2 years I've tapped 2-3 weeks earlier then I would ever have dreamed before but if I hadn't I would have missed out on 1/3 of my total run. I think the best thing you can do is practice the best sanitation habits possible, new taps annually, pipelines, etc and tap when the weather looks good for a prolonged period of time and hope for the best.

[maple flats]

3/16 drop tubes is not a good choice. For the same reason 3/16 can give you natural vacuum (the sap and gases do not pass each other) using a 3/16 drop from the taps will pull more sap back into the tap hole as the tree freezes, thus contaminating the hole and starting the tree's response of stopping the flow there. For the drops you want 5/16 tubing, and if you want the best bang for your buck use Zap Bac spouts, they can be reused for 3 to maybe even 5 seasons, or a 5/16 SS spout for 5/16 tubing which can be boiled clean year after year. If you chose that, I suggest you boil twice, once then run a brush thru them and then boil again.

[maple marc]

What about the drops into buckets on 3/16" with check valves? I tried this on a handful of trees last year. I think it extended the season a bit longer, but it was some trouble to set up. I heard conflicting stories from two experts (at Maple Talk conferences) about whether gravity vacuum develops. One said yes; the other said that you need about 5' of drop to create the vacuum, and as you raise the height of the tap to that level, you lose head pressure, which negates the vacuum in the tubing. I'm not sure what to believe. Any other experts want to weigh in?

[Obidiah]

Would check valve spikes help reduce the amount of bacteria on drop lines or is that only for long tubing runs?

[Ntatar]

Anyone got a picture that they can share of this tap/hose/bucket set-up?