Filter Aid Issue???

[3% Solution]

Here's my issue .....

If I use filter aid in my press it plugs up ......
If I use 1/2 cup for the first pot ( 3/4 gallon) it plugs ......
If I use a tablespoon full it plugs .......
If I don't use any filter aid I get 7 gallons through it ......

Last year it was fine ...... had different filter aid
Well it looked different ..
The filter aid I have this year looks like powder ..... got it from a maple dealer ....

Any thoughts????

[maple maniac65]

Hmmm bad filter aid

[3% Solution]

I got this from a larger producer who got it a maple supplier .....
He isn't having any issues with it .....
It looks powdery .... is that a word???
Got it towards the end of the season and had some of the older stuff left ....
The other was a light tanish ..... this is very white .....

[bees1st]

Food grade filter aid is very white. Is your press assembled correctly?

[3% Solution]

Yes it is ......

[3% Solution]

Hey all ...

I am getting some different DE tomorrow ...
Hope it works ....
I has to be the DE .... syrup goes through ......

Thanks for everyone's input ..

[Sugarmaker]

Dave,
Hope the new DE solves the problem!
You having a good season?
Regards,
Chris

[3% Solution]

Sugarmaker,

Yeah we're not doing bad ....
The weather is looking good for the coming week .....
We should be good ...

How you folks doing???

[Sugarmaker]

Dave,
The season is very slow. Weather looks good right now but we tapped 4 weeks ago. Small run today trying to decide if I should gather or not? Would have 100+ gallons of 2% sap.
We have made 73 gallons at this point, about 1/2 of a normal season.
Regards,
Chris

[Amber Gold]

Dave, I haven't seen you on here for a while. Hope all's well.

My filter aid is white, white and looks powdery. I haven't seen tannish colored filter aid before. I haven't come across bad filter aid before, but that could be it. Try it out and let us know if it still doesn't work.

What about the papers? Are those new this year?

[Russell Lampron]

I get my filter aid from Bascom's and is a white fine powder. Dialite or something like that is the brand name. I never had a problem with it.

Someone else on here had a problem last year with some DE he bought on Amazon thinking that it was the same as filter aid. He had all kinds of problems with it.

[Russell Lampron]

Forgot to ask but are you getting your syrup hot enough before you filter it? It should be just under the boiling point.

[JoeJ]

I just opened up a new bag of Celite DE yesterday and I was surprised how pure white it was compared to the old bag. The De from the old bag just didn't seem to filter for a long time. The DE from the new bag filtered more gallons than than the darker DE from the old bag.

Joe

[3% Solution]

Forgot to ask but are you getting your syrup hot enough before you filter it? It should be just under the boiling point.,

Hi Russ,
The syrup is right off the evaporator ..... 197 to 202
The syrup goes through fine ..... just not with the DE I have ....

[3% Solution]

I get my filter aid from Bascom's and is a white fine powder. Dialite or something like that is the brand name. I never had a problem with it.

Someone else on here had a problem last year with some DE he bought on Amazon thinking that it was the same as filter aid. He had all kinds of problems with it.

Russ,
That is where this came from .....
Yes I read those posts .....
It works great without the DE .......
We got 7gallons through the other night before it plugged .....
Used it again tonight without DE ..... almost 5 gallons without any issues ....

[3% Solution]

Dave, I haven't seen you on here for a while. Hope all's well.

My filter aid is white, white and looks powdery. I haven't seen tannish colored filter aid before. I haven't come across bad filter aid before, but that could be it. Try it out and let us know if it still doesn't work.

What about the papers? Are those new this year?

Hi Josh,
Everything is great on my side of the state ...... no issues here ....
I got the papers last year with the press ......
As I told Russ ..... works fine without the DE .....
No issues with it last year .....
Used it tonight went great ......
Throw the DE into the equation and it's all over ....

[Russell Lampron]

Just read your signature Dave. I thought your truck was a 2015. Did you get a new one?

[NH Maplemaker]

Yes he does, Rich people trade every couple years! LOL . He will probably pay it off after the law suite over the DE I gave Him! LMAO

[3% Solution]

Yes he does, Rich people trade every couple years! LOL . He will probably pay it off after the law suite over the DE I gave Him! LMAO

NHMaplemaker,

Naw I won't do that ...... just not using it .....

[3% Solution]

Just read your signature Dave. I thought your truck was a 2015. Did you get a new one?

Russ,
Lease came do last September ......

[cabinetcap]

I to have a sheets press with hand pump. I usually do four to give gallon batches and add about four cups of de. It can be hard to get the last bit through. Interesting your getting five to seven gallons through without de. Do you have an air pump and how clean was the syrup? Just got me thinking about my next batch, thanks.

[3% Solution]

I to have a sheets press with hand pump. I usually do four to give gallon batches and add about four cups of de. It can be hard to get the last bit through. Interesting your getting five to seven gallons through without de. Do you have an air pump and how clean was the syrup? Just got me thinking about my next batch, thanks.

cabinetcab,

I have a hand pump also ......
The syrup wasn't the cleanest I've ever seen ....
After 4 3/4 gallons last night it was about 1/8" thick ......
It's more pastey this year ..... not gritty .....

[Russell Lampron]

Russ,
Lease came do last September ......

Did you buy or lease this time? My lease was up last February and I bought my new one. I've got a 2017 Silverado 1500 crew cab.

[3% Solution]

Did you buy or lease this time? My lease was up last February and I bought my new one. I've got a 2017 Silverado 1500 crew cab.

Russ,

I leased again ....
I have the same thing ......

[3% Solution]

Ok .. got some different DE yesterday ... tried it last night ....
Works better than the white DE .... courser .....
Now maybe one of my issues is "Niter" ... lots of "Niter" .....
Having the press since the end of the season last year and flat filters before ...
We was never able to estimate the amount of niter ....
Looking at a couple of pictures of last year and doesn't seem to be as much for the same amount or more syrup ...
Will post some pics in a bit .....
Still love this press ... 100x better than flat filters .....
And that comes from the help!!!!

[3% Solution]

Ok .. got some different DE yesterday ... tried it last night ....
Works better than the white DE .... courser .....
Now maybe one of my issues is "Niter" ... lots of "Niter" .....
Having the press since the end of the season last year and flat filters before ...
We was never able to estimate the amount of niter ....
Looking at a couple of pictures of last year and doesn't seem to be as much for the same amount or more syrup ...
Will post some pics in a bit .....
Still love this press ... 100x better than flat filters .....
And that comes from the help!!!!

Here are the pictures ....
With the blues gloves was last year ...

180191802018021

[Haynes Forest Products]

your not using enough DE.

[DrTimPerkins]

your not using enough DE.

I agree. Very frequently people think plugging of filter presses is due to too much DE. Typically it is the opposite -- not enough DE. The "cake" shown in those photos is very dark and very thin. You need more DE to build up the "cake" for the niter to be filtered in/on. The only time you might be using too much is if your entire press is full of DE (the cake occupies the entire space between plates in the press).

http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc/filter_press_brochure.pdf
https://www.uvm.edu/sites/default/files/Ask-Proctor-Filtering-MapleSyrupDigest.pdf

[3% Solution]

I agree. Very frequently people think plugging of filter presses is due to too much DE. Typically it is the opposite -- not enough DE. The "cake" shown in those photos is very dark and very thin. You need more DE to build up the "cake" for the niter to be filtered in/on. The only time you might be using too much is if your entire press is full of DE (the cake occupies the entire space between plates in the press).

http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc/filter_press_brochure.pdf
https://www.uvm.edu/sites/default/files/Ask-Proctor-Filtering-MapleSyrupDigest.pdf

Dr. Tim,
I am glad you have jumped in here .....
As you can see I have a same press with hand pump ....
The scoop we use for the DE is equal to 1/4 cup ....
We started with two scoops in the first pot (3/4 gallon) ....
The press plugged within a half gallon going into the canner ....
We dropped to 1/4 of the scoop ..... still plugged .....
We then went with no DE .....
Got 7 gallons through it .....
Got some different DE yesterday .... worked better .....

So if we put 4 scoops in the first pot it would filter ... is that what I am reading??

Your thoughts .....

Thank you sir!!

[Amber Gold]

Agreed. Not enough DE. The cake is way too dark. When I charge a full press, I use at least two heaping cups of DE for the first drawoff...say it's two gallons. Every 1-2 gal batch thereafter, I add another cup of DE. Later/darker syrup gets more DE.

[DrTimPerkins]

So if we put 4 scoops in the first pot it would filter ... is that what I am reading??

Maybe. Four 1/4 cup scoops isn't too much for sure, especially if you're charging a fresh press. Filtering is a Goldilocks-type process. Too little = bad. Too much = bad. In between = Just right. Finding that "just right" spot is a bit of a trial-error type thing, but more often than not, people tend to use too little DE, but think it is the DE is causing the problem. The DE IS the filter material. The paper is there only to hold the DE in place. You only have too much DE if you're filling your plates up really quickly.

The other thing is that the "just right" spot tends to shift a little with the season. Early and late-season there is sometimes more difficulty filtering. Mid-season things tend to work best. So just be ready to change a bit as time goes by over the season.

You also want to keep the syrup and press as hot as you can....the syrup will filter much easier.

And just to let you know you're not alone....we got two new D&G filter presses this year. After several boils we think we finally have the "just right" amount figured out (and yes, we weren't giving it enough DE). Things can get pretty interesting fast when you're making 40 gal of syrup/hr and don't have the filtering squared away.

[3% Solution]

Maybe. Four 1/4 cup scoops isn't too much for sure, especially if you're charging a fresh press. Filtering is a Goldilocks-type process. Too little = bad. Too much = bad. In between = Just right. Finding that "just right" spot is a bit of a trial-error type thing, but more often than not, people tend to use too little DE, but think it is the DE is causing the problem. The DE IS the filter material. The paper is there only to hold the DE in place. You only have too much DE if you're filling your plates up really quickly.

The other thing is that the "just right" spot tends to shift a little with the season. Early and late-season there is sometimes more difficulty filtering. Mid-season things tend to work best. So just be ready to change a bit as time goes by over the season.

You also want to keep the syrup and press as hot as you can....the syrup will filter much easier.

And just to let you know you're not alone....we got two new D&G filter presses this year. After several boils we think we finally have the "just right" amount figured out (and yes, we weren't giving it enough DE). Things can get pretty interesting fast when you're making 40 gal of syrup/hr and don't have the filtering squared away.

Dr. Tim ...
My problem is when I put 2 scoops into the first pot of syrup after about a half gallon of syrup goes into the canner it starts to bind up .... so you're saying when I notice the binding start I should add more DE into the next pot until it flows smooth????
If I'm being a pain .... sorry ... just can't get my head around this .....
I do understand how the DE works ....
Syrup is around 200* when it goes into the press ... after the first pot you can't hold your hand on the press ...

[Haynes Forest Products]

There is another veritable in the filter press saga. I have a 65 gallon finisher and I wait till I have at least 55 gallons in it. I get it all boiling and dump in what I think is good and I spatulate it with a food grade Home Depot pain stirrer. Now because I start with my press on recirculate to warm the pump and hoses. Then I stir the DE and switch the valve over to filter back into the finisher until its clear. Once Im up and filtering nice clear syrup I put the hose into a drum or bottler and give the syrup a quick stir. Not all the DE is going to go into the pump because it will settle out and will get used in the next round of filtering. How often you stir it up will determine how much gets into the press. Now if you dump in to much don't stir it all into suspension sending it down to the filter press.

Now I'm the guy that likes to pack my plates so full that when I break down the press the cakes are light brown and you can stack them 20 high.

[DrTimPerkins]

Pour the DE into hot syrup and mix very well, then run it immediately though your press. Many people will circulate the syrup back into the container until it runs clear. BEFORE it starts to bind up, add more DE (start with 1 more scoop). Try starting the process with 3 scoops next time and see how it goes. If it doesn't work, try 4. Your plates are nowhere near full (from the photos), so you've got plenty of room. DE is cheap.

[3% Solution]

Pour the DE into hot syrup and mix very well, then run it immediately though your press. Many people will circulate the syrup back into the container until it runs clear. BEFORE it starts to bind up, add more DE (start with 1 more scoop). Try starting the process with 3 scoops next time and see how it goes. If it doesn't work, try 4. Your plates are nowhere near full (from the photos), so you've got plenty of room. DE is cheap.

Dr.Tim .....

That sounds like a plan ......
We will no doubt be trying that this weekend .....
Thank you for your help ...
I will fill you in later this week .....

Thank you!!!!

[maple flats]

Once the papers start to plug it's usually too late to add more DE. With practice you will find the sweet spot. It's probably better to use too much than too little. When the filter no longer takes more syrup, open it, If the hollow plates are completely full you used enough or more than enough, from there cut back a little on each batch until you determine the right amount.
We can't give you specific amounts because sugar sand (niter) is not the same all over, one producer may need 1.5 or 2x as much as another producer using the same press.
If you filtered a large amount with no DE, it will not be crystal clear, the papers in the press can not remove the super fine niter, while the DE can remove both. The papers simply catch the DE and the DE catches the niter.

[johnallin]

One of the nice things about Leader’s clear press is knowing exactly how much cake you have built up.
I shoot for about 3/8”.

[MISugarDaddy]

We use to use 3 cups of DE for an eight gallon batch, but after reading Dr. Perkins instructions, we now use 3 cups with the first three gallons of syrup, and another 2 cups with the remaining 5 to 6 gallons and our pressure never spikes like it did when we used only 3 cups for the entire batch.
Gary

[maple flats]

In early season I use 2 cups of DE in my first 2-3 gal, (my press is a 5 bank 7") mix it in well and recirculate on bypass until well blended Then I sent it to the filter to coat the papers and catch the initial filtered syrup back into the mixing tank. When it comes out sparkly clear, I then start sending it to my bottler (or a barrel). After that initial batch the next batch of 5-6 gal gets 1.5 cups, mix and filter. After the first batch the papers are coated, and I don't need to send filtered syrup back to the mix tank, but each batch does get recirculated back without going thru the filter for maybe 15-20 seconds to mix the DE in better, then it is pushed thru the filter press.
Anytime I restart the press after filtering an earlier batch, if it has been more than about 90 minutes, I restart with an initial higher mix.
To change this formula to your 5" press make a ratio of surface areas of the filter papers, I have 10 papers 7x7 or about 490 sq in. You have 25" x the # of papers you have (6?). just do the math. Getting the papers initially properly coated will be a direct relationship to surface area of the papers in the press. If in doubt use a little more DE.
Happy filtering! Once you get used to using it, you will love it and your syrup will be sparkly clear.

[3% Solution]

In early season I use 2 cups of DE in my first 2-3 gal, (my press is a 5 bank 7") mix it in well and recirculate on bypass until well blended Then I sent it to the filter to coat the papers and catch the initial filtered syrup back into the mixing tank. When it comes out sparkly clear, I then start sending it to my bottler (or a barrel). After that initial batch the next batch of 5-6 gal gets 1.5 cups, mix and filter. After the first batch the papers are coated, and I don't need to send filtered syrup back to the mix tank, but each batch does get recirculated back without going thru the filter for maybe 15-20 seconds to mix the DE in better, then it is pushed thru the filter press.
Anytime I restart the press after filtering an earlier batch, if it has been more than about 90 minutes, I restart with an initial higher mix.
To change this formula to your 5" press make a ratio of surface areas of the filter papers, I have 10 papers 7x7 or about 490 sq in. You have 25" x the # of papers you have (6?). just do the math. Getting the papers initially properly coated will be a direct relationship to surface area of the papers in the press. If in doubt use a little more DE.
Happy filtering! Once you get used to using it, you will love it and your syrup will be sparkly clear.

Ok so I have 10 papers = 250 sq. in .......
I do 3/4 gallon pots at a time ..... right off the evaporator ...
I should be adding at least 1 cup to the initial pot ..... recirc it till clear ...
Then add 1/2 cup or a little less per pot after the first one .....

Did I do my math ok???

[3% Solution]

Hey everyone who has offered help on this matter .....
And my good friend NHMaplemaker .....

Added 3 scoops to the first pot and 1-1/2 scoops to each pot after ....
If it felt it was getting harder to push we'd add more than the 1-1/2 scoops ...

It worked well ..... 4 gallons pushed through easy .....
Just lots of sand ....

Below are a few pictures ....

Thank you guys for all your help ....

18088180891809018091

[maple marc]

I have Daryl's 5" filter press, an air pump, and a 6 gallon Smoky Lake water jacket canner. This combo is usually great for producing clear syrup bottled in glass. However, this last 6 gallon batch I bottled came out with a slight haze. I'm trying to figure out what happened. As usual, I heated the syrup to 195, drew off 1.5 gallons into a pot with 1.5 cups of DE. I ran it through the press, back into the big pot, then added 2 cups of DE, a little recirculation,confirmed clarity, then into the canner. Is it possible that too little DE would create a slight haze? I think I read that Daryl's press can hold 4.5 cups of DE, so maybe I should add more for a 6-gallon batch.

One thing I noticed was that there was slightly more leakage between the plates than usual, despite tightening the nuts really tight. Not sure why that happened. Is it possible that inside the press some dirty syrup could leak into the clean syrup flowing out?

Thanks for ideas.

[3% Solution]

I have Daryl's 5" filter press, an air pump, and a 6 gallon Smoky Lake water jacket canner. This combo is usually great for producing clear syrup bottled in glass. However, this last 6 gallon batch I bottled came out with a slight haze. I'm trying to figure out what happened. As usual, I heated the syrup to 195, drew off 1.5 gallons into a pot with 1.5 cups of DE. I ran it through the press, back into the big pot, then added 2 cups of DE, a little recirculation,confirmed clarity, then into the canner. Is it possible that too little DE would create a slight haze? I think I read that Daryl's press can hold 4.5 cups of DE, so maybe I should add more for a 6-gallon batch.

One thing I noticed was that there was slightly more leakage between the plates than usual, despite tightening the nuts really tight. Not sure why that happened. Is it possible that inside the press some dirty syrup could leak into the clean syrup flowing out?

Thanks for ideas.

I think that will happen if you blow a paper .....
We like this little press ......

[Haynes Forest Products]

Boys I got to tell ya I have never heard so many variations of how people are having problems with getting clear syrup from their presses.
Leaking between plates is normal and wont effect the quality of the syrup. Filtering right from a boiling pot of syrup wont cause cloudy syrup. Using to much DE won't cause cloudy syrup. Not using DE wont cause cloudy syrup. Reusing filters (done right) wont cause cloudy syrup. Throwing in 2 cups of beech sand into the finisher right before you filter wont cause cloudy syrup. bottling cold contaminated syrup wont cause cloudy syrup it will have mold on the top but not cloudy. Moldy syrup is moldy syrup and not the filter presses fault.

Having a hand pump filter press makes it more difficult to clean out the system before you change over to bottling. I like to run my press on the filter mode for a few minuets before I put in the drum or bottler. This will ensure that you have cleaned all the crud from the filters and hoses. Yes charging your press is very important but in reality what comes out of the other sides of the filters will be clean. I don' t believe anything that can get thru the filter papers ca be seen by the naked eye.