leaky saddles

[Alex Davies]

turned on the vac pump today for the first time, and wouldn't you know it, lots of leaky saddles. Using CDL saddles with the nut/bolt tightening mechanism. Most are okay, but have quite a few leaky ones. I use a mainline drilling tool, and make sure to get a clean, round hole.

What are folks out there doing to fix problem saddles? Replace? Wire tie them tighter? Any sort of food grade sealing products (silicone type) that you can apply around the hole before you tighten saddles?

I've got a pile of laterals left to tie into my newly installed mainline... I'm half tempted to cut the mainline and attach laterals to 6 way stars instead of more inevitably problematic saddles.

Thoughts?

Thanks

[Alex Davies]

Also, anyone have any tricks for plugging holes in mainline where saddles have been removed?

[JoeJ]

Also, anyone have any tricks for plugging holes in mainline where saddles have been removed?
Lapierre makes a two piece saddle hole plug. $.75 each plus a hose clamp. Excellent seal.

I use Lapierre Brannon saddles with a fixed head. The sales person suggested adding 2 wire ties on each side of the saddle just for insurance. I installed over 900 of these saddles in my newer woods in 2013 and have only had to replace one that I just could not get to stop leaking. Other wise, zero leaks.

If you apply silicon to a saddle to try to stop a leak, only apply with the vacuum off and let silicon set 24 hrs before subjecting the repair silicon to vacuum. Adding wire ties might solve the problem also.

I don't know about the six way stars. I used some the first year I had vacuum and took them all out the second season. A single entrance works better. A friend was installing a new woods and asked if he could have the stars to put in his woods. He put in a bunch of them. He took them all out a couple years later.

Joe

[Alex Davies]

That's some good advice. Thanks. Maybe I'll reconsider my plan to replace saddles with 6 way stars.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I would take a few off and see what might be the problem. I have a few every year that will give me fits BUT its because I did'nt get the saddle on straight. Now you say that you use the nut and bolt system so you don't have the ratchet style that you can add the nut and bolt option. Have you over tightened them causing pipe to distort? I also twisty tie them. I made some pliers to aid in clamping them.

[MISugarDaddy]

Did you tighten your mainline after drilling any of the holes in it? I noticed on one line that I did that to when I first started using tubing and the hole became elongated which caused a small amount of leakage. I have since replaced that section and now I make sure not to tighten the line after drilling holes into it.
Gary

[JoeJ]

After reading Haynes's post, it reminded me of a very important procedure that I was not told about in 2003 when I first installed saddles. Do you place the gasket in the hole, then snap in the saddle? I did not. When I started to use vacuum 3 years later, I had leaks from just about every one of the over 400 saddles. By just pushing in the saddle with the gasket in place, I distorted about every single one. As I started to repair the leaks, I found a few gaskets that covered the hole, some hole partially covered and some had a corner folded over. I went through my whole woods and took every saddle off to check the gaskets and installed all new gaskets.

Joe

[nymapleguy607]

What type of saddle are you using? I use the max seal saddles with the fixed head, I have not had any leakers from the ones I installed. That said, make sure the sealing gasket don't roll when it was installed around the pipe, or gotten a piece of debris under the gasket. Make sure the saddle tensioner is tight as possible, I made a set of pliers for tightening these, if the teeth on the latch are crossed they will not grip and thus won't seal, and lastly I add double wire ties on each side of the saddle. Hope it helps.

[Atgreene]

I'm taking all the plastic junk ones out in favor of the DSD pipe clamp version. No leaks, works great.
https://youtu.be/V0ezeXr-ld0

[blissville maples]

Take to wire ties put them together and wrap them around the notch on each side of the saddle and around the main line.. so you will be using for wire ties / saddle to on each side I will guarantee you they do not leak after you do this

[blissville maples]

Also stay away from the ones with replaceable gaskets that go on first however I see CDL has discontinued some of the raccord fittings which i liked

[OldManMaple]

Sometimes what sounds like a leaking saddle is air moving through the line from a chew or loose tap up the latteral
Just saying.......

[GeneralStark]

turned on the vac pump today for the first time, and wouldn't you know it, lots of leaky saddles. Using CDL saddles with the nut/bolt tightening mechanism. Most are okay, but have quite a few leaky ones. I use a mainline drilling tool, and make sure to get a clean, round hole.

What are folks out there doing to fix problem saddles? Replace? Wire tie them tighter? Any sort of food grade sealing products (silicone type) that you can apply around the hole before you tighten saddles?

I've got a pile of laterals left to tie into my newly installed mainline... I'm half tempted to cut the mainline and attach laterals to 6 way stars instead of more inevitably problematic saddles.

Thoughts?

Thanks

We're going to need more specifics....

Which specific type of CDL saddle are you using? They sell a number and they require different size holes to be drilled. SO that would be the first question...what type and what size hole are you drilling?

How did you install them? Did you put the gasket on first and then install the saddle? This is the preferred method and doing otherwise can pinch the gasket...

As others have mentioned, a leak in a lateral can easily be mistaken as a leak in a saddle, so this is something else to confirm. Are the saddles actually leaking?

I have used both LaPierre Branon and CDL Max Flow saddles and have had good luck with both, though now I just use CDL Max Flow. I drill the hole, insert gasket and be sure it is seated correctly and then pop the saddle and squeeze it tight with channel locks. I then use a double wire tie to keep tension on the saddle and then use two wire ties around the saddle and main line.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I wouldn't make a blanket statement that all plastic saddles are junk. I would also say that some style saddles in the past were problematic and the market place corrected that. I have around 200 saddles in use today and have had no reoccurring issues with them. Ever been to the tire store and seen 4 guys huddled around a tire machine working on 1 tire out of a set of 4. I don't know one repetitious job I do that doesnt throw me for a loop and when I look back at it I shake my head and say "Did see that coming". Find a product you know is well made and stick with it and become an expert at it then you can move on the the next weak link in your operation with confidence.

Using Silicone sealant on a saddle is a useless endeavor with low success rate. I would also steer clear of the spiny barb style. I found if you learn to end your lateral and go straight to the mainline with a loop and a good mainline wire hook your rate of successes goes way up. I used to dread making penetrations in my mainline and installing saddles. Now once all my laterals are strung out and tapped in with the last line laying over the mainline I can walk down the row installing saddles without a care in the world. I install them under vacuum and walk away with confidence I wont be back. Unless I dropped my D$%^ phone some ware along the way.

[maple flats]

While the leakage rate was low on most saddle types I've used in the past, I have also gone to DSD saddles exclusively since I first tried them about 4 years ago. I only change out old ones as they leak, but they all get the DSD saddles which have a SS band clamp with a hole in the band for the saddle fitting. In the past I used ones with an elbow fitting, the new ones I bought are straight. I have not yet tried any of those yet. However, in the past my experience with the DSD saddles have been good, and they are slightly less costly than other saddles. While I don't have any 1/2" mains, they even make a 1/2" saddle for those who do, and they go up to 2" or more. but each works best if made for that size. I once tried a 1" saddle on a 3/4 main and the pressure holding the seal was not as good as a 3/4" saddle on a 3/4 main. They position the hole to be opposite the screw clamp.

[eagle lake sugar]

I started out with H20 saddles and have tried several others, most of them I've taken off and replaced them with H20. Put them on, tighten the screws and you're done, no leaky saddles in 5 seasons. They're also only $1.99. I would like to try the DSD saddles, they look reliable too.

[blissville maples]

Sometimes what sounds like a leaking saddle is air moving through the line from a chew or loose tap up the latteral
Just saying.......

Good point

[GeneralStark]

Once I can rent the tool I will be trying this: http://www.cdlusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Catalog-CDL-USA-2018-LR-8.pdf

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

General, the guy that owns the big bush we work on bought one of those and about 500 saddles. We didn't have time to install them this year but did play around with it in the shack with some tubing. Pretty slick I think once you get it dialed in. Definitely should be leak proof for a very long time. Biggest concern is that we will have to tape up the old saddle holes. For a new operation, definitely worth considering for anyone...........

[wurmdert]

I have sold a bunch of the DSD saddles and have had zero leak complaints. The gasket can be flipped to fit two different size holes and also can buy plugs to plug old holes. I use these in my bush and love them. Simple, fool proof, and efficient.